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[ToonyMan]

NJW for being wrong about players, again.

[Maximum Spin]

Do you read Tric as scum then? I don't believe this is mafia!Tric at all. I can't understand half of what he's saying.

You know I don't like to make statements like that this early.

I do understand what he's saying just fine though.

I'm more than happy to let Tric sit for now, anyway, since, if he's telling the truth, he probably dies n1 by attracting the kill. That is what you mean, right, Tric?

NJW for being wrong about players, again.

Hey, rude, I was going to vote him. I guess I'll leave it for now.

[NJW2000]

@NJW we’re in a weird setup with only 8 players, an announcement at the start of the game that there was at least one scum (the implication being “not necessarily more than one scum”) then a claimed recruitable third party that seems to stay in the game even after they achieve their wincon of being recruited, plus someone claiming a random recruit for town, with another implication that scum might also have a recruit ability, random or otherwise.

Am I just supposed to ignore the first significant piece of information in the game? :p it’s also RVS and close to day start, we have plenty of time to examine that and hopefully clear up before the end of the day, and FoU can confirm my experience with early TP claims that” they can benefit town” was not good.

You're not. Nonetheless, that was the way you responded to it.

Also, as a pedant I'd say the first bit of significant information signifies the end of RVS.



If Tric's to be believed about the third party thing, then yeah, 2 mafia + 3p could drop to lylo on a single miselim, or even end the game if the third party can reasonably side with the mafia, so that might be odd. I'd speculate that there may be Mafia + Mally, possibly with a third party.

Wanna hear my waaacky theory about who they'd be?

Spoiler: conspiracy theorising (click to show/hide)

There are 8 players in the game which makes having the tradish two scum and a third party of any stripe a bit of a stretch here.

It seems more likely to me that there’s one scum, and Tric is able to be recruited by them, possibly also by town to maybe kinda sorta balance it out?

...

I hate third parties, god damn.

It has been a while, hector my scum buddy my pal, hasn't it?

Not actually mafia though. I am, stating once and all and for the record, that I am town. If I subsequently claim third party, please execute me. Thank you.

If we’re vagueclaiming, my ability is of… it’s not very good. I think I’m more support than anything else.

Started thinking about this because Mafiakart racing had a Mally in it. I checked out the game because they were talking about it.

Doesn't add up to much, but hey, following my gut here.


Ninja: ok Tric has a global attract. I'm going to think about this.

[hector13]

Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.

Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.

I don't know, I think Knightwing and Hector are town here.

So far, I agree. This encourages me that ToonyMan may also be town.
I don't think I believe TricMagic here, but I can't articulate why exactly. I believe he probably INSPECTS as a third party, though.

It’s this kind of thing that makes Max hard to read for me. They know Tric puts a lot of stock in their role, to the point of that sometimes overriding their alignment (webadict’s game in which Tric was town and had their role modified by collecting hats, in which collecting these hats was all Tric was interested in) so I don’t know how they think Tric’s claim is so unbelievable.

*gets distracted by having things to do*

Jiminy Christmas Tric. It’s awfully convenient you claim to be a magnet after someone claims a random recruit for town.

Euch. If anything I suppose it makes you more suspicious if you’re still alive on D2. Probably. *sigh*

@NJW we’re in a weird setup with only 8 players, an announcement at the start of the game that there was at least one scum (the implication being “not necessarily more than one scum”) then a claimed recruitable third party that seems to stay in the game even after they achieve their wincon of being recruited, plus someone claiming a random recruit for town, with another implication that scum might also have a recruit ability, random or otherwise.

Am I just supposed to ignore the first significant piece of information in the game? :p it’s also RVS and close to day start, we have plenty of time to examine that and hopefully clear up before the end of the day, and FoU can confirm my experience with early TP claims that” they can benefit town” was not good.

You're not. Nonetheless, that was the way you responded to it.

Also, as a pedant I'd say the first bit of significant information signifies the end of RVS.



If Tric's to be believed about the third party thing, then yeah, 2 mafia + 3p could drop to lylo on a single miselim, or even end the game if the third party can reasonably side with the mafia, so that might be odd. I'd speculate that there may be Mafia + Mally, possibly with a third party.

Wanna hear my waaacky theory about who they'd be?

Spoiler: conspiracy theorising (click to show/hide)

There are 8 players in the game which makes having the tradish two scum and a third party of any stripe a bit of a stretch here.

It seems more likely to me that there’s one scum, and Tric is able to be recruited by them, possibly also by town to maybe kinda sorta balance it out?

...

I hate third parties, god damn.

It has been a while, hector my scum buddy my pal, hasn't it?

Not actually mafia though. I am, stating once and all and for the record, that I am town. If I subsequently claim third party, please execute me. Thank you.

If we’re vagueclaiming, my ability is of… it’s not very good. I think I’m more support than anything else.

Started thinking about this because Mafiakart racing had a Mally in it. I checked out the game because they were talking about it.

Doesn't add up to much, but hey, following my gut here.


Ninja: ok Tric has a global attract. I'm going to think about this.

The first significant piece of information was a third-party claim that they could be recruited. What am I supposed to do with that?

This is within the context of a game with fewer than 9 players, which I’m under the impression is the minimum number to make a 2 player scum team “fair”, but more than 7, which I think is the upper limit for a 1 player scum team, though I might be mistaken regarding that.

Further context is the announcement that there was at least 1 scum from the mod, an unusual step. This doesn’t preclude a 2 player team, but it does make it harder for me to believe with Tric’s recruitable third party claim involved, plus Toony’s apparent supporting claim for it.

Like… I get that focusing on third parties doesn’t help find scum, but it’s the first few hours of D1, it was the first significant thing to happen, Tric could be recruited by scum by D2 (this was before the magnet claim) soooo… how would a townie response be different to how I responded to the information and context?

[Maximum Spin]

It’s this kind of thing that makes Max hard to read for me. They know Tric puts a lot of stock in their role, to the point of that sometimes overriding their alignment (webadict’s game in which Tric was town and had their role modified by collecting hats, in which collecting these hats was all Tric was interested in) so I don’t know how they think Tric’s claim is so unbelievable.

Of course I know that Tric is "MY ROLE MY ROLE MY SPECIAL ROLE". But he's shown this capacity to lie before, and I tend to find it suspicious when he comes out in the first couple of posts with something overly convenient. It seems like town Tric usually likes to string you along a little first, like he did with the fairy godfather ability. That said, I guess Tric isn't claiming to be town, here, so maybe I'm just not as familiar with "third-party Tric" and confusing it with "lying Tric".

[NJW2000]

@Hector: Well, you could have avoided leaping to conclusions about scum team numbers at all, especially as there are unknown role powers that will impact balance... this isn't mountainous. Your conclusion was that the scumteam were likely single-player, which is odd, and minimises the threat scum poses to town in relation to 3p, when there are other possibilities, such as Mafia ally, powerful town roles, Tric's just mafia, etc. A townier response would not have done that.

Granted, I can see why a town player might reach the conclusions you did. It's just that the things you ended up saying were more than a little dubious. Not sure what to make of your insistence otherwise.


Tric: Question for you here. Want this very explicitly answered.

[TricMagic]

And before anyone asks, I'm third party. So I'm going to be a bit disruptive till I win, after which I'll just help out my friend. Please befriend me?

Yes, this is a silly way to win a game of mafia, why do you ask?

Answered literally here. Sure I could just drop out and not interact once I've won, but my strat kinda needs incentive to spend your time befriending me. Sure I could have just stayed silent and use my attract N1, but had my doubts of that working out well.

I won't just disappear once my wincon is reached. But in the same manner, once it's reached there isn't a reason not to help out the one who let me win. Note I won't be using my attract night 1, but my other ability.

Moving on, what do inspects say about you max? Is it just roleflips that get randomized, or are you saying that in advance in case you flip mafia?

[Maximum Spin]

Is it just roleflips that get randomized

Yes.

[NJW2000]

Huh. No point putting this off, I guess.

TricMagic.

There's something very dubious going on here. Players do not stick around once their wincon is reached. They leave the game. You can check this in the OP, and with the mod.

You're lying to us.

Why?

[hector13]

@Hector: Well, you could have avoided leaping to conclusions about scum team numbers at all, especially as there are unknown role powers that will impact balance... this isn't mountainous. Your conclusion was that the scumteam were likely single-player, which is odd, and minimises the threat scum poses to town in relation to 3p, when there are other possibilities, such as Mafia ally, powerful town roles, Tric's just mafia, etc. A townier response would not have done that.

Granted, I can see why a town player might reach the conclusions you did. It's just that the things you ended up saying were more than a little dubious. Not sure what to make of your insistence otherwise.


Tric: Question for you here. Want this very explicitly answered.

I haven’t drawn any conclusions on how many scum players there are, I have theorized given context clues and claims that I’ve already gone over, which is exactly what you’re doing with thinking there is 1 mafia player and an ally, just with more speculation on your part.

As an aside, knowing how many scum there are is important (to me anyway) to know how many people I should reasonably be suspicious of, which is precisely the number of the scum team. More than that and I’m being too paranoid, less than that and I’m letting someone get away with something.

*another long wait and one new post later*

Okay.

We’ll see how this plays out.

Do you think scum!Tric slips this early, with or without a partner?

[TricMagic]

NJW, I'm confused. And thinking you may be trying for an early lynch. Who better to lynch than third party, you pretty much get off scot-free suspision-wise.

Having said that,

Third Parties: Custom roles that have a small chance of appearing in any setup. For example: "You are a third-party: you win and leave the game if [player name] is alive at the start of the third day.". "You are a third-party: you win if the town wins."

These two win conditions are different. One causes you to leave if the stated player is alive, winning you the game. The other has you win if town wins, which is more a miller-type condition. Notably, the latter doesn't have you leaving at any point. At a casual glance, I don't see anything that says I leave afterwards. If I did, I wouldn't have made that claim.

[TricMagic]

NQT, is it true Third Parties will always leave upon reaching their wincon?

[Maximum Spin]

NQT, is it true Third Parties will always leave upon reaching their wincon?

Third-parties leave the game when they win.

Someone needs to re-read the OP methinks.

Wait, sorry, that last quote was from the wrong game.

[notquitethere]

NQT, is it true Third Parties will always leave upon reaching their wincon?

Yes. Currently the generator does not generate third party roles which stay in the game when they win, and I'm not aware of any Xylbot third party that would stay in the game after their win conditions have been met.

[TricMagic]

NQT, is it true Third Parties will always leave upon reaching their wincon?

Yes. Currently the generator does not generate third party roles which stay in the game when they win, and I'm not aware of any Xylbot third party that would stay in the game after their win conditions have been met.

Oh.. Wished it had said that in my pm, but on me for not reading rules.

Well, launch me I guess.