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[FallacyofUrist]

And finally, the action log.

Spoiler: Night 0 (click to show/hide)

Night 0 action plans:
Town:
Egan_BW: Use The Seed Of Hope on Shakerag.
Lenglon: Use Hallucinate on TricMagic. Anonymous message: Too long for log.
Jim Groovester: Vanilla Track Roden. Except F-You: “fuck you” anonymously to Shakerag and webadict.
Shakerag: No action.
Knightwing64: Serendipity (random encounter / roleblock) on Lenglon.
webadict: Basement Pithos of Spiteful Half-Price Deals on TricMagic, Knightwing64, and Roden. Anonymous message: “This is webadict. You are recommended to not buy, but I can't stop you if you do. Claim this or don't, I don't care.”
TricMagic: Spinning Sand Into Glass to give Roden a Glass Lens.

Mafia:
Maximum Spin: Use Multiplayer on Jim Groovester.
Roden: Use Gold In Them Cards! on webadict.

Night 0 action results:
Town:
Egan_BW grants Shakerag an additional action slot on Night 1.
Lenglon is roleblocked by Knightwing64.
Jim Groovester learns that Roden visited webadict, receives access to Multiplayer-chat, and anonymously sends “fuck you” to Shakerag and webadict.
Shakerag receives Jim Groovester’s message anonymously, and receives a 1-Shot copy of The Seed of Hope from Egan_BW. Shakerag may use an additional action on Night 1.
Knightwing64 roleblocks Lenglon and receives webadict’s anonymous offer.
webadict loses Chaos due to Roden’s mining, and anonymously sends TricMagic, Knightwing64, and Roden his offer. webadict receives Jim Groovester’s anonymous message.
TricMagic receives webadict’s anonymous offer and gives Roden the Glass Lens.

Mafia:
Maximum Spin learns Jim Groovester’s role and sets up the Multiplayer chat.
Roden steals (1d3=2) Chaos from webadict, and receives webadict’s anonymous offer. Roden receives the Glass Lens from TricMagic.

Spoiler: Day 1 (click to show/hide)

Day 1 action plans:
Town:
TricMagic chooses to “buy”.
Roden chooses to “don’t buy”.
Knightwing64 chooses to “don’t buy”.
webadict uses Pestilence on TricMagic.

Day 1 action results:
Town:
TricMagic’s gains the status “Released Evil”, then loses it, then his ability Mob Boss is disabled until the start of Day 2.
webadict removes the status “Released Evil” from TricMagic and disables Mob Boss, then learns the full details of Mob Boss.

Mafia:
Maximum Spin harvests 1 Blood from TricMagic’s execution.

Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)

Night 1 action plans:
Town:
Lenglon: Use Hallucinate on Shakerag. Message: too long for log.
webadict: Use Basement Pithos of Spiteful Half-Price Deals on Roden and Lenglon. Message: too long for log.
Knightwing64: Use Serendipity in roleblock mode to block Maximum Spin.
Egan_BW: Use The Flame Of Justice on Roden.
Jim Groovester: Use Vanilla Track (last shot) on Roden.
Shakerag: Use Shakeragian, Thus Of Shakerag, Thus Belonging To Shakerag on Roden. Use The Seed Of Hope on Egan_BW.

Mafia:
Maximum Spin: Auto-use Incremental Blood Upgrades to upgrade Jim Groovester’s Vanilla Motivate, spending 2 Blood, and Mafiakill Egan_BW.
Roden: Use Glass Lens on Lenglon.

Night 1 action results:
Town:
Lenglon makes Shakerag Hallucinate. Lenglon also receives webadict’s anonymous offer.
webadict sends his anonymous offer to Roden and Lenglon, and gains Latent Disease. He receives the anonymous message ‘fuck you’ from Jim Groovester’s auto.
Knightwing64 roleblocks Maximum Spin.
Egan_BW’s action fails and is refunded, and they may use an additional action on Night 2.
Jim Groovester Vanilla Tracks Roden, and learns that Roden visits Shakerag. Vanilla Motivate is upgraded! “(1-Shot, Night) Vanilla Motivate [target]: You motivate your target to gain an additional vote for the next Day, in a totally bland and sweet fashion. You may also choose to remove a random ability from their role as part of this action.” His auto also sends ‘fuck you’ to webadict and Shakerag.
Shakerag redirects Roden to him, since interference actions resolve first. Shakerag’s auto Typical Shakerag gives him a 1-Shot copy of Glass Lens. Shakerag receives Lenglon’s anonymous message, and gains Latent Disease and gains a copy of Hallucinate, at the same time as he gives Egan_BW an extra action on Night 2, since the actions resolve simultaneously and Typical Shakerag grants actions on action hit, not on action resolution. After The Seed Of Hope resolves fully, Typical Shakerag removes all Shakerag’s 1-Shot actions.  Except it doesn’t, because Of Course He Would Submit That is removed instead of Glass Lens and Hallucinate. Shakerag then receives the anonymous message ‘fuck you’.

Mafia:
Maximum Spin is roleblocked, preventing him from Mafiakill-ing Egan_BW, but Incremental Blood Upgrades still upgrades Vanilla Motivate at Night end. Maximum Spin’s Incremental Gold Counter does not gain any Gold because Knightwing does not visit.
Roden gets redirected to Shakerag, by Shakerag using Shakeragian, Thus Of… (he is not told this). Roden learns Shakerag’s alignment using Glass Lens at the end of Day 2, which then self-destructs. The Flame Of Justice acts after actions are used, but Glass Lens no longer exists, so it cannot be disabled. Therefore it fails to do anything and the shot is refunded. Roden also receives webadict’s anonymous offer.

Spoiler: Day 2 (click to show/hide)

Day 2 action plans:
Town:
Lenglon undecided. End of day, defaults to “don’t buy”.
Knightwing64 uses Railroad on Maximum Spin (first) and Egan_BW (second).

Mafia:
Roden chooses to “don’t buy”.

Day 2 action results:
Town:
Lenglon learns that webadict and Shakerag have Disease.
Knightwing forces Maximum Spin to be only able to target Egan_BW or take no action on Night 2. As he does not visit, Maximum Spin goes not gain Gold.
webadict gains a permanent extra vote because all players chose “don’t buy” explicitly or implicitly.

Mafia:
Maximum Spin is Railroad-ed, and may only either use a targeted action on Egan_BW, or take no action, on Night 2. Maximum Spin harvests 1 Blood from Knightwing64’s execution.

Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)

Night 2 action plans:
Town:
Egan_BW: The Flame of Justice Maximum Spin, and The Light of Truth webadict.
Lenglon: Hallucinate webadict. Message: too long for log.
webadict: Basement Pithos of Spiteful Half-Price Deals Roden and Shakerag. Message: “Roden Shakerag 21 buy or I vote you.”
Shakerag: Glass Lens webadict.
Jim Groovester: Vanilla Motivate Shakerag. Except F-You sends an anonymous message, “fuck you” to Shakerag and webadict.

Mafia:
Maximum Spin: No action. Use Incremental Blood Upgrades to upgrade Vanilla Motivate (2 Blood spent) at the end of the Night.
Roden: Use That Hound Of Mine in Mafiakill mode to both kill and track Shakerag.

Night 2 action results:
Town:
Egan_BW roleblocks Maximum Spin with The Flame Of Justice and destroys his Automated Lethality. Egan also learns that webadict is Town using The Light Of Truth, and learns the entire text of Basement Pithos of Spiteful Half-Price Deals. After all actions are resolved, Ticking Clock resolves and erases all Egan’s abilities.
Lenglon learns that webadict’s action was fully successful, and sends her anonymous message to webadict as well. Outrageously Infectious triggers, causing webadict’s Latent Disease to advance to Active Disease.
webadict performs his action, sending his anonymous offer to Roden and Shakerag. webadict receives an anonymous message from Hallucinate, and his Latent Disease advances to Active Disease. webadict receives the anonymous ‘fuck you’ from Jim’s Except F-You.
Shakerag would learn what webadict’s alignment is at the end of Day 3 from Glass Lens, except he’s killed by That Hound Of Mine. Shakerag receives webadict’s anonymous offer from Pithos and receives the anonymous message ‘fuck you’ from Except F-You from Jim. Shakerag also receives an additional vote from Jim Groovester’s Vanilla Motivate. Typical Shakerag copies Vanilla Motivate. Glass Lens self-destructs, and since Shakerag used a 1-Shot ability, Typical Shakerag purges all his one-shots. Vanilla Motivate is not upgraded because Typical Shakerag purges everything before the Night ends.
Jim Groovester transmits his usual ‘fuck you’s to webadict and Shakerag courtesy of Except F-You, and grants Shakerag a temporary vote. Jim Groovester’s Vanilla Motivate is upgraded! The ability changes to “(1-Shot, Night) Vanilla Motivate [target]: You motivate your target to gain an additional vote for the next Day, in a totally bland and sweet fashion. If they hammer using that vote, they retain it for one additional Day, though they cannot repeat this. You may also choose to remove a random ability from their role as part of this action.”

Mafia:
Maximum Spin is roleblocked and his Automated Lethality is destroyed thanks to Egan’s The Flame Of Justice. He also gains 1 Gold from being visited for the first time. He also spends 2 Blood to upgrade Vanilla Motivate with Incremental Blood Upgrades, which only applies to Jim since Shakerag’s copy is destroyed before the end of the Night by Typical Shakerag. He also gains 1 Blood from Shakerag’s death.
Roden kills Shakerag with That Hound Of Mine, and tracks him to webadict. Roden also receives webadict’s anonymous Pithos offer.

Spoiler: Day 3 (click to show/hide)

Day 3 action results:
Town:
webadict permanently gains an extra vote at day end because both Shakerag and Roden defaulted.
Lenglon learns that webadict has Disease.

Spoiler: Night 3 (click to show/hide)

Night 3 action plans:
Town:
Egan_BW: No action.
Lenglon: No action.
webadict: Use Basement Pithos of Spiteful Half-Price Deals on Lenglon and Egan_BW. Message: too long for log.
Jim Groovester: Use Vanilla Protect on webadict. Except F-You is not in effect because webadict is alive and Shakerag is not.

Mafia:
Roden: Use That Hound Of Mine on Mafiakill mode to kill Lenglon.







Night 3 action results:
Town:
Egan_BW receives an anonymous offer from webadict. Egan_BW gains Latent Disease from webadict’s Active Disease.
Lenglon receives an anonymous offer from webadict, and gains Latent Disease from webadict’s Active Disease. Lenglon is also killed.
webadict successfully sends his anonymous offer.
Jim Groovester protects webadict and gains Latent Disease from webadict’s Active Disease.

Mafia:
Roden successfully kills Lenglon and learns that she visited no one. Roden gains Latent Disease from Lengon’s auto Outrageously Infectious.

Optional survey:

What did you like most about the setup?
What did you dislike the most about the setup?
What did you like most about your role?
What did you dislike the most about your role?
What would have improved the setup?
What advice do you have for future BYOR moderators?
What other comments would you like to make?
Should self-voting be removed from Beginner games?

[hector13]

I don’t think that was a beginner friendly game.

[Knightwing64]

Ay! My final action helped! Let’s goooooo


Compared to normal mafia we play, this is pretty tame compared to some of the more bastardly games here

[Knightwing64]

I’d say this was a pretty good introduction to what mafia is like here

[FallacyofUrist]

I don’t think that was a beginner friendly game.

It wasn't and that is completely my bad. The complexity scale was a tad bit too high.

Despite that I don't think the balance was that bad, but it definitely needed to be scaled down from... if a 10 is KYOSN or Flabort's High Octane BYOR and a 1 is Mountainous, this was something like a 6 or 7 and it needed to be a 3 or 4.

I think the complexity definitely came more from certain roles than others, too. Knightwing and Jim's roles were closer to ideal than webadict or Shakerag's.

I’d say this was a pretty good introduction to what mafia is like here

And yet this remains fairly accurate. It definitely should have been toned down in some areas though.

[hector13]

I’d say this was a pretty good introduction to what mafia is like here

Absolutely not. The N0 thing made the entire game a laboriously boring process of analyzing night actions with minimal actual discussion beyond that. I don’t think an actual beginner would have learned much from it.

[FallacyofUrist]

I suppose that needs to be added to the survey too.

Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?

[hector13]

Self-voting shouldn’t be removed either, it’s a viable strategy, just not necessarily the way Tric used it.

Technically he did find scum doing it, though.

[ToonyMan]

I don’t think that was a beginner friendly game.

Neither do I.

Mylo and lylo were good though.

[TricMagic]

Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
No: TricMagic

Night 0 turned into RVS night followed by laborious mechanical discussion. Also, note that just cause someone has a godfather role that doesn't always make them mafia in BYOR games. And yeah, I was asking for it, but still.

[Knightwing64]

Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
No: TricMagic
Yes: Knightwing64

I thought it was cool little addition

[Egan_BW]

Consider: Next time, when sending their role prompt the player may also specify a low, moderate, or high desired complexity level.

[hector13]

Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
No: TricMagic

Night 0 turned into RVS night followed by laborious mechanical discussion. Also, note that just cause someone has a godfather role that doesn't always make them mafia in BYOR games. And yeah, I was asking for it, but still.

You did deserve it :p I was townreading you until that self-vote.

Anyhow, yeah, non-lethal N0 only really works when you have detective roles I think. There’s no need for scum to lie about what they did and there’s no risk to them if their alignment can’t be looked at, and as I said before, it just devolved into trying to mechanically solve the game, which I personally find to be boring.

Traditional RVS at least encourages interactions between players, forcing them to take positions and, most goddamn importantly, to use their vote. The game might eventually get to the point that it’s being solved mechanically, but I’m of the firm belief that the day game informs everything, so that will feed into the actions taken at night, and consequently the day game should be the focus for beginner games.

[webadict]

Optional survey

What did you like most about the setup?
 - There were a lot of opportunities for the scum to fakeclaim and hide behind mech info.

What did you dislike the most about the setup?
 - There were a few random elements that made this less beginner friendly than some. I think that alone would improve everything. Additionally, Lylobreakers should be avoided in a Beginner game as well, since looking for ways for the scum to win off of that might be a bit much (And, again, makes the Day game less important.)

What did you like most about your role?
 - Used Salesman vibe was a great tone for the role name.

What did you dislike the most about your role?
 - My role had too strong of an incentive to NOT buy from it. Additionally, Players didn't really receive a real reason to buy, either. I think having a better reason to buy on the player's part would make for a better role. Additionally, avoid using too strong of changes to the Day game (Permanent extra votes are typically bad.)

What would have improved the setup?
 - Remove N0, faster processing of actions. Night 0 works against the intended beginner teaching elements, though it does allow everyone to be able to at least use their Actions. I think it might be better to use specific Night 0 Actions, like how Max's role was setup.

What advice do you have for future BYOR moderators?
 - Day Actions are the hardest to deal with. Don't add them recklessly. In fact, avoid using them ever.

What other comments would you like to make?
 - Ummm... None.

Should self-voting be removed from Beginner games?
 - YES. PLEASE. IT'S NOT USEFUL!

[Jim Groovester]

I want to play simpler mafia games.

One of the biggest turn offs for playing a complicated setup like this (beginner) setup is that reasoning through night and role results is draining and it's stressful if the analysis isn't fruitful, which is already likely to happen if everybody is telling the truth and almost a certainty if anybody lies or omits something.

I gather that some people like it but it's not my thing.

Anyways, good game. Also good job webadict and the rest of the town for carrying hard while I carried water for the scumteam again.

I suppose that needs to be added to the survey too.

Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?

I hate it. It was awful. It turned Day 1 into Day 2 but without any Day 1 reads.

I like being able to make a read after somebody's first post, whether it's right or wrong. In this game it was just role result role result role result role result for Day 1 and 80% of the rest of the game.