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[TricMagic]

K. So Night 1. Fal targeted Max, Max blocked and learned Fal's action. Lenglon whispered to NJW, who told us Fal was Town.
[Fal is confirmed to have used a Kill action Night 1, after the Crane had removed their target. However Night 2 there was no action on MaxSpin, but there are no other players to block them silently known.]

Lidku and I both claim no actions. Shakerag claims Bodyguard. Knightwing used The Royal We.


Lenglon's recap of Night 1

Redacting info in this post to see if Lidku can present a case arguing Lenglon is Mafia. Or any other combination, remember to include teams.

Here's the secret Lidku. Fal was confirmed by NJW through Lenglon's whisper. No action happened Night 2 however. The only two known who could create this result are myself, and Fallacy. While others could have a hidden ability and are lying, it's contingent on them blocking Fal from confirming the result, and I as town would have diverted it. Unless they themselves attempted to roleblock me silently.

Lidku, in regards to your latest post. You seem to be making a logical Fallacy.

Can you please elaborate further?

You assume them voting you is the result of a mafia backchannel to get a reaction. They don't need to get a reaction, Lenglon has enough town-cred to get you lynched. Them both voting you is not a sign of them being the scumteam together.

[Shakerag]

Well I'm just gonna go ahead and push the issue then.

FoU:
and Max:  How likely do you both think that Lenglon and myself are the scumteam after all this?

[Lenglon]

FoU: I have been considering the thought that the crane user (assuming they aren't Lidku) could make it difficult to coordinate actions tonight, and seems to be growing in power every night. For mechanical reasons I would benefit from targeting the same person you do, and I do not have a way to bypass the crane. Tonight when you are deciding on your action target, if you are uncertain of who to target with your action, and one of your potential targets is behind the crane and one is not, please target the one that is not hidden by the crane. Of course, if you do have a better target and a reason for it then you should go with your own idea. The synergy would be nice but it'd be far better for you to have a well-aimed ability. Thank you.

[Shakerag]

You assume them voting you is the result of a mafia backchannel to get a reaction. They don't need to get a reaction, Lenglon has enough town-cred to get you lynched. Them both voting you is not a sign of them being the scumteam together.

So, can I assume from this that you think I'm scum who is buttering up Lenglon by using my abilities on her?

[Shakerag]

TricMagic:  Additionally, I would like to hear your thoughts on this "crane" ability and why Max and I were targeted with it.

[TricMagic]

The main points for today.

Lenglon tracked you, she says you performed the kill.
Shakerag gifted Lenglon something.
Max did nothing/Fal Mugged Max
Lidku performed a Super-Protect on Fal.
TricMagic Bussed Fal and Themselves.
Knightwing did Nothing.

Yesterday.
Fal Mugged Max/Max did nothing
Lenglon Whispered to NJW/NJW actioned Fal
Shakerag Bodyguarded Lendlon
Knightwing Crowned Lenglon
TricMagic did nothing. Lidku did nothing.



Note, N1 there was no Mafiakill. Or was there?
N2, there was no Mugging, but there was a Mafiakill.
Mechanically, that means Fal is likely Mafia, right?

Fal killed Knightwing= Lenglon frames Lidku? OR Max frames Lidku?

This is one scenario with two outcomes. Another is thus,
 
Lidku killed Knightwing = Fal did nothing? *{1 Faction Kill} OR Max did ?
... It's late.. Hmm. Fal did not receive anything, and Max did not receive a notification. So Max?=Unaffected. Max and Fal, by the setup they performed, are the only two who could be a possible solution Lidku. But you completely dismissed Fal as an option. Why is that?

[Lidku]

K. So Night 1. Fal targeted Max, Max blocked and learned Fal's action. Lenglon whispered to NJW, who told us Fal was Town.
[Fal is confirmed to have used a Kill action Night 1, after the Crane had removed their target. However Night 2 there was no action on MaxSpin, but there are no other players to block them silently known.]

Lidku and I both claim no actions. Shakerag claims Bodyguard. Knightwing used The Royal We.


Lenglon's recap of Night 1

Redacting info in this post to see if Lidku can present a case arguing Lenglon is Mafia. Or any other combination, remember to include teams.

Here's the secret Lidku. Fal was confirmed by NJW through Lenglon's whisper. No action happened Night 2 however. The only two known who could create this result are myself, and Fallacy. While others could have a hidden ability and are lying, it's contingent on them blocking Fal from confirming the result, and I as town would have diverted it. Unless they themselves attempted to roleblock me silently.

Lidku, in regards to your latest post. You seem to be making a logical Fallacy.

Your original "you seem to be making a logical fallacy" (and the post I've currently quoted, which is an extension from when I asked you to elaborate your meaning of it) post, you were responding to this post below:

So you're assuming scum!Shakerag has literally fullclaimed and said, twice now, that I'm giving positive actions to Leglon? 

Question:  Do you think I'm actually being -that- bold-faced this game then?  That I, as scum, would claim two days in a row that I'm giving positive actions to my "scummate"?

Yes, I very much believe so, since almost everyone has seemingly eased Lenglon into their "Town" read. Nobody has strongly questioned them at all the entire game, which has allowed them to skirt-by for this long. Giving your teammate additive cover for the deception would be a boon for your team (and is, if I'm correct about you and Lenglon being Mafia together).

The acting "aggressive" bit was a rouse the whole time, to gain the unnecessitated trust of Town (and also, you were one of the first one's to agree with this behavior from Lenglon). This was especially suspect when you and Lenglon pivoted interest to get NJW lynched, even though he read very much Town or neutral by many others at the time before.

Lidku:  Additionally, do you think scum!Shakerag and scum!Lenglon would straight up both vote you early on in the day?  That's an awful bold move. 

Easy. Lenglon says a deception about my N2 action (which was me using my Super Protect on Fallacy). Either one of you did the kill. Then soon after as the Day opens, you both eventually blindside me with votes to gain some sort of reaction (which admittedly, you have, to an extent). All of which can be easily coordinated from a Mafia backchannel, which both of you are likely on.

My "latest" post was me discussing my N2 action and discussing my theory on Lenglon-Shakerag. The actions you're talking about, of when Fallacy was confirmed Town by NJW, was all on N1. I fail to see what relevance you tried to bring up with your post, and I also fail to see why are you claiming no action was done on N2?

[Maximum Spin]

Max I'm willing to take you up on looking for Lidku's partner in discussion only for today. I am not willing to give up a lynch on confirmed scum in order to take a blind shot at maybe-scum.

Right, I agree with this. Personally, I'd take the shot if I felt it was really really obvious and eat the blame for the loss if it came down to it, but I don't really think it's getting to that point today anyway. Certainly the Tric Interaction doesn't rise to that level even though I find it suspicious.

Having said that, the oddity last night of your interaction only has three possibilities:
A) FoU did not use Mug on you last night, so FoU is scum.
B) You are lying and Mug DID block you last night, and you are lying in order to avoid FoU becoming confirmed town because you are the last scum.
C) You are both telling the truth and a third party roleblocked FoU, and this third party is the final scum.

In the case of option C, we need to see who has un-accounted-for actions. My action is clearly accounted for, and I confirm that Shakerag's is, this means that in case C the only possibility is TricMagic.

As a result I believe we can fullclear both myself and Shake for mechanics reasons, pending Lidku flipping scum. Is this reasonable to you?

I won't say fullclear, as I've seen web give scum multiple-acting for exactly this reason (web hates mechanical clearing). But yeah, it's reasonable, and I have no intention of ever voting you if Lidku is indeed mafia, nor Shakerag unless something really convinces me that's what happened. Which isn't likely given my current suspicions.
I'd like to add that, since Fallacy confirmed not receiving an action from me, option B is impossible unless you believe I can choose whether to give those out, which doesn't really make sense, since I would have had no reason to do it n1 in that case.

Well I'm just gonna go ahead and push the issue then.

FoU:
and Max:  How likely do you both think that Lenglon and myself are the scumteam after all this?

Lol, nah. I mean, it's still in the back of my mind, it's always in the back of my mind, but if Lidku's town and you managed to goad him to react this badly, I guess you deserve the win.
Now, I do want to say one thing that's still technically possible, the thing I was referencing to TricMagic before. If Fallacy is telling the truth, it is possible for a town player to be recognized as mafia for the purposes of another ability. If he's not, it seems likely that he got the idea from somewhere. Either way, the possibility of a mafia player who is recognized as town for the purposes of other abilities would make sense to fit into the game. Other abilities such as, maybe, a town-only bodyguarding power. Notably, it seems to me that this would make a lot of sense to go with the crane ability, since that continues to increase in power, and it would make sense as a nerf for one mafia player to be unable to act through it due to counting as town - possibly specifically the one using it, so that he has to set up the partner.

That's very much trying to outguess the mod. But I think it hangs together as a minority possibility. I don't want to lose sight of it.

[Maximum Spin]

One thing I don't fully understand about the night is this: If Fallacy really didn't target me, what did he do? It would seem pretty stupid for him to intentionally break off from the routine we'd planned, then have Lidku do the kill - unless he had an even more important power available. It seems to me like the roleblock option is more likely. Tric, what's your theory?

[Lenglon]

Fair point Max, and I admit to not paying as close of attention to the you/FoU interaction as I should have, having decided to chalk it up as temporarily Not My Problem, especially with each of you tying up each other's actions so even if one of you were scum said player wouldn't be free to act properly. Thank you for pointing out the flaw in scenario B.

[Shakerag]

Bedtime for me.  Unvote just to avoid the hammer and get more discussion, but I will re-vote Lidku tomorrow, barring some insane revelation.

Reminder hammer is at 4 right now.

[TricMagic]

You assume them voting you is the result of a mafia backchannel to get a reaction. They don't need to get a reaction, Lenglon has enough town-cred to get you lynched. Them both voting you is not a sign of them being the scumteam together.

So, can I assume from this that you think I'm scum who is buttering up Lenglon by using my abilities on her?

TricMagic:  Additionally, I would like to hear your thoughts on this "crane" ability and why Max and I were targeted with it.

I'm mostly reducing things into various paths that could exist.

Targeting Max has a few reasons, Though would need to look over day 1 to see if Max claimed something or not. It did remove them beyond town's power to save, but Max saved themselves. The question becomes thus, can it target Mafia?

A Lenglon/Shakerag team is almost laughable in this scenario. Not impossible, but there is too much that can go wrong by removing you from the equation. (That being targetable for town). It would be a good way to remove my ability to inspect you though. But then if I had been going that route I would have investigated Lenglon instead. Or blocked Lidku, but wanted to make sure of things, given I thought he would be using his Bus ability, not the protect thing.

As I said, it's dependent on if it can target Mafia or not. However, if it can then I can safely say the team would be Lidku/Shakerag? That's just on possibility though, and Lidku if Mafia completely missed the Fal possibility. And a Lidku/Shakerag team is one that will crash if Lidku gets lynched.


Going down that route. Lidku used a super to remove Fallacy from interacting at all. And Lenglon did the kill and is bussing Lidku hard. Or the opposite occurred, but less likely based on flavor. Whispers aren't cranes. Notable, Lidku would be bussed in this scenario to achieve the victory, in which case, good on her for fooling us all.

Way too late to criticize this bit of logic on my end. Should get to bed.
Nin. Lidku, yu messed up your formatting. Also, you're still intentionally doing what you've done all game. There is only 1 Faction Kill normally. Fal doing nothing is consistent with one of my abilities blocking him from acting without informing him. Which is absolutely dumb on my end since he'd notice he didn't get an ability, but could be pushed as you and I being the team. But that requires Fal/Max and a framejob, or Fal/Lenglon. You never actually mentioned them, despite them opening many possible scum-teams if you're town. As scum, you'd miss it.

More ninja, baa.

[Lidku]

Bedtime for me.  Unvote just to avoid the hammer and get more discussion, but I will re-vote Lidku tomorrow, barring some insane revelation.

Reminder hammer is at 4 right now.

If you're so sure about me being Mafia, why worry about a hammer at all? Wouldn't it make sense just to leave it?

[Lidku]

Hm. I find it suspicious Shakerag would just remove his vote, worrying about a hammer of all things? His justification for removing it is really weird.

You know what?

I want to see something.

Lidku

[TricMagic]

One thing I don't fully understand about the night is this: If Fallacy really didn't target me, what did he do? It would seem pretty stupid for him to intentionally break off from the routine we'd planned, then have Lidku do the kill - unless he had an even more important power available. It seems to me like the roleblock option is more likely. Tric, what's your theory?

Mine is pretty simple. Only 1 FactionKill can be used at a time, and tying it to you would mean another night without a kill. It's the most obvious if considering Fal as Mafia. Which makes it the weirdest that Lidku never came up with that theory. Granted, beginner. But that's why you ask questions Lidku. It's why N1 matters here, there was no known kill, just the known attempt by Fal.


And there goes the self-vote. Let me guess, you thing that will get people off your back? It might but uh.. There isn't any desperation. Use it with a case that you put together for when you flip town. Let your thoughts flow into the thread that will lead town to the right answer.