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[Maximum Spin]

This is a no lose situation for me. And potentially you.

The only way I can know that Jim Groovester is scum is if they're my King, which is an automatic win for Town. So, I have to scumread Jim, regardless of my alignment, OR I lose immediately.
If my King is Knightwing, then I lose if you stay on Knightwing. If you're Town, that's a win for you to take the bet.
If I'm the King, then I lose unless you think the scumteam is exactly Jim Groovester, ToonyMan, and me, OR Roden, EuchreJack, or me.
If I'm Town, then you have to acknowledge that I'm scumreading Jim Groovester. If you're Town, you'd take the bet or reconsider that I'm Town, which is a win for me.

I said I'm not a betting man. I'm not agreeing to this regardless of whether you believe it is optimal. There are some things I just won't do.

Also, Max, you're not the King.

Jim is the most likely to be King, and ToonyMan is the second most likely.

But, it's prooooobably Jim.

Okay, then you have to believe I am town, because I am 100% willing to let you lynch either or both of them. Seriously, try it, see if I do anything to stop you.

[webadict]

I mean... Thing is, if Jim Groovester flips Traitor, we're still voting ToonyMan, and if ToonyMan flips Traitor, we're still voting you.

I was really just letting it be a bit more official so that I could be held accountable.

[Maximum Spin]

I mean... Thing is, if Jim Groovester flips Traitor, we're still voting ToonyMan, and if ToonyMan flips Traitor, we're still voting you.

I was really just letting it be a bit more official so that I could be held accountable.

"What do you mean we, white man?"

[webadict]

If Jim Groovester flips Traitor, in what world do you think we're not all doing exactly what I say?

EuchreJack will follow.
Roden will follow.

That's three votes to the remaining two.

When I fail to find scum, that is when I'll be cast aside.

[Maximum Spin]

I just hate to see someone be so smugly wrong.

How about this. If I'm not scum, who do you think is the next most likely?

[webadict]

I just hate to see someone be so smugly wrong.

How about this. If I'm not scum, who do you think is the next most likely?

Roden.

[ToonyMan]

*reads three pages of nonsense*

Bite me, Webadict.

You have an absolute stubbornness and arrogance in logic. Your "holier than thou" attitude disways other players from disagreeing with you (whether through timidness or exhaustion) and tricks more sheepy players to nod their head and accept your crooked reasoning.

Your congo line of death involving myself and Jim/Max is purely to fuel your ego and gloat if it resolves.

This ability you've claimed has driven me mad up the wall. I want to believe you're just boldly claiming something that Tric bestowed the King, as behaviorally I strongly believe you're scum even if the OP ability mechanically clashes with it. I just wouldn't put it past Tric.

...To hell with it, I should have done this earlier. Webadict. Let's throw down. As Max put it I'm sick of your smugness and think you deserve a smack to the face. I think it's possible your behavior about Knightwing has been staged and Jack has been playing along. In other words in this scenario: you're King and Jack is one of the guards. Your plan would grant an autowin if you could lynch two Rebels today, which is likely to happen with you in control.

[webadict]

@Max: I can't believe you're Town unless you accept EuchreJack is Town, though.

That's only suspicious if you think that both of us are Traitors and one of us is the King. I don't fault you for doing that. But, if that's the case, then who's our last Traitor? Is it Knightwing? That would doom me if I'm sticking to this course of action, which I'm basically forced to if Knightwing and Roden don't show up. If it's anyone else but Jim Groovester, then we basically win, so you need to be 100% sure at least one of those two is scum.\

That's why I'm being so pushy about this. I have to be right, or it's game over. That's what hitting the double elimination button did.

I find it hard to believe that you're all so casual about Jim Groovester being voted out, which is why I think he's the King. I find it hard to believe that you think EuchreJack is a Traitor. I find it hard to believe that you think Knightwing64 might be the King.

To me, a lot of coincidences line up that point to you three being the Traitors.

*reads three pages of nonsense*

Bite me, Webadict.

You have an absolute stubbornness and arrogance in logic. Your "holier than thou" attitude disways other players from disagreeing with you (whether through timidness or exhaustion) and tricks more sheepy players to nod their head and accept your crooked reasoning.

Your congo line of death involving myself and Jim/Max is purely to fuel your ego and gloat if it resolves.

This ability you've claimed has driven me mad up the wall. I want to believe you're just boldly claiming something that Tric bestowed the King, as behaviorally I strongly believe you're scum even if the OP ability mechanically clashes with it. I just wouldn't put it past Tric.

...To hell with it, I should have done this earlier. Webadict. Let's throw down. As Max put it I'm sick of your smugness and think you deserve a smack to the face. I think it's possible your behavior about Knightwing has been staged and Jack has been playing along. In other words in this scenario: you're King and Jack is one of the guards. Your plan would grant an autowin if you could lynch two Rebels today, which is likely to happen with you in control.

This is exactly what I expected. A last minute shift when called out. Classic.

However, your only way to win is for you to split the votes 3/2-2-2 or hope Roden or Knightwing don't side with me, in which case I have no idea what happens. No, the plan is to remove the strongest willed player and hope you can control the Town when I'm dead, assuming that Jim is not the King, which... I'm not gonna do, because I'm pretty sure I'm right.

If you'd like, you could take the bet instead. You won't, because you know I'm too powerful to keep alive, but I knew this was gonna happen eventually, which is why I had to find the scum.

[webadict]

Any bets on when Jim Groovester and Maximum Spin switch to me? Anyone?

[ToonyMan]

I refuse to believe you're this dumb.

[Maximum Spin]

*reads three pages of nonsense*

Bite me, Webadict.

You have an absolute stubbornness and arrogance in logic. Your "holier than thou" attitude disways other players from disagreeing with you (whether through timidness or exhaustion) and tricks more sheepy players to nod their head and accept your crooked reasoning.

Your congo line of death involving myself and Jim/Max is purely to fuel your ego and gloat if it resolves.

This ability you've claimed has driven me mad up the wall. I want to believe you're just boldly claiming something that Tric bestowed the King, as behaviorally I strongly believe you're scum even if the OP ability mechanically clashes with it. I just wouldn't put it past Tric.

...To hell with it, I should have done this earlier. Webadict. Let's throw down. As Max put it I'm sick of your smugness and think you deserve a smack to the face. I think it's possible your behavior about Knightwing has been staged and Jack has been playing along. In other words in this scenario: you're King and Jack is one of the guards. Your plan would grant an autowin if you could lynch two Rebels today, which is likely to happen with you in control.

I don't trust ToonyMan in this game, but every part of this that describes webadict's attitude is completely right.
Webadict, I don't know if you're just complacent from being used to having people sheepily follow you or what, but I can't actually remember any time when I've seen you superciliously declare your 100% certainty on something that turned out to be right. Even when you were definitely town. If you are seriously town right now, and I think it's entirely possible that you are, you need to really reflect on this, as it's your biggest weakness as a player. As it stands, I will basically never follow your lead on anything because it's clear that your instincts cannot be trusted and you don't seem to have any humility about this. You may well even be right about ToonyMan and Jim, but how am I supposed to pursue that? There are many people, including most pointedly me, who respond exactly the opposite way to what ToonyMan says here:

Your "holier than thou" attitude disways other players from disagreeing with you (whether through timidness or exhaustion) and tricks more sheepy players to nod their head and accept your crooked reasoning.

and are dissuaded (sorry, ToonyMan, had to do it) from agreeing with someone who's being pushy and obnoxious about it.

@Max: I can't believe you're Town unless you accept EuchreJack is Town, though.

Why should I think EuchreJack is town? Is he behaving as if he is town, and not a good enough player to fake it? I'm serious, I want you to explain this. Give me the reason, don't just tell me I have to accept it. I don't accept anything I'm told I have to accept, on principle.

[Maximum Spin]

I find it hard to believe that you're all so casual about Jim Groovester being voted out, which is why I think he's the King.

Why do you find this hard to believe? Have I done anything that suggests I care?

Also, don't tell me that I "need" to do X or Y. Like, if we blow this right out of the gate (because of YOUR choice to use an anti-town power), then whatever, gg no re, on to the next thing. I'm not gonna explode, TricMagic planted that bomb on a cleverly-disguised decoy.
My point is, if (as you said) I need to be 100% sure that one of the two people eliminated today is scum, then that's never going to happen because I am never 100% sure of anything, at all. I think I've got a decent guess and nobody has managed to convince me otherwise, so I'm comfortable going with it. I can't control anyone else's votes, only my own.

[Maximum Spin]

I would like to propose a trade, which you know I like to do. If EuchreJack and webadict admit that, by your own arguments, I was completely correct when I said this:

In fact, lynching two people is the most likely way that Town will actually get to lynch one person of their majority's choosing, as otherwise all town players would have to agree to vote the King.

I'd buy this if I thought there was any chance that a majority of people in this forum would ever agree on the right target.

then I will change my vote to the player of your choice who isn't already one of the two top lynch choices (I do not actually know who is at the moment).

[EuchreJack]

I think Max probably has the right idea, and is probably town, even though we disagree on exactly which of the two is scum.
As long as Jim is lynched, I'm ok with anyone else.  It is not 100%, but close enough.

Toony's switch sort of confirms Jim is probably the King, or Toony has identified Jim as a guard where Toony is the King.

THREEEEEEEEE SCUMMMMMMMM 3/7 3/7 3/7

The swing onto Web sorta makes Web look more Towny, so I hope it doesn't succeed.

I also don't agree with a plan for what we do Day 3 when Day 1 has not ended, and other powers might exist.
Eh, lynch Jim, then ToonyMan, then re-evaluate.
Roden not posting is a scum tell, easily fixed with a post by Roden.  We'll see what we get on that front.

[EuchreJack]

I would like to propose a trade, which you know I like to do. If EuchreJack and webadict admit that, by your own arguments, I was completely correct when I said this:

In fact, lynching two people is the most likely way that Town will actually get to lynch one person of their majority's choosing, as otherwise all town players would have to agree to vote the King.

I'd buy this if I thought there was any chance that a majority of people in this forum would ever agree on the right target.

then I will change my vote to the player of your choice who isn't already one of the two top lynch choices (I do not actually know who is at the moment).

Eh, you were probably right.  Web might have more faith in Town Day 1, but I don't.
As for my preferences, as long as Jim gets lynched, I don't care what happens.
Part of me prefers Web survive, as I'm getting that Town vibe from him that proved correct in the past.
Web here is pissed off that he might lose, whereas Web as scum is pissed off that he is not winning.  It's a subtle distinction, but I think it is there.
If you could not vote me, that also would be great.

Basically, there is a lot of scum, so I'm more focused on keeping town alive to Day 2.

Since nobody is really talking about Roden, that might just be a giant arrow towards Roden being the King.  But hey, Roden needs to post, so maybe its nothing?