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Author Topic: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)  (Read 69191 times)

KittyTac

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #390 on: March 01, 2022, 09:10:52 pm »

The border officers in Poland that were accused of allegedly not allowing non-white people to pass were found in breach of international law and have been removed. Good news. I also recently deconverted my mom from defending Putin.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 09:14:59 pm by KittyTac »
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Laterigrade

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #391 on: March 01, 2022, 10:11:48 pm »

Hell, some people in places like America or Australia, the scare-quotes “West”, people have fallen for it, saying things like, ‘Ukraine forced Russia’s hand by allying with the US’, or talking about how Russia’s concerns about nazis in Ukraine are legitimate.

This is further confirmation that some political leaders are toddlers.  "You can't be their friend instead of mine! I'm going to beat you up now!"
You stole my toys! I guess I’ll have to explode you!
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EuchreJack

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #392 on: March 02, 2022, 12:00:47 am »

The border officers in Poland that were accused of allegedly not allowing non-white people to pass were found in breach of international law and have been removed. Good news. I also recently deconverted my mom from defending Putin.
Congrats!

MaxTheFox

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #393 on: March 02, 2022, 02:34:33 am »

Russia state TV describes it as a limited military operation to take out nazis in Ukraine and protect the Ukrainian people.

Accoring to the news and background articles over here in the Netherlands, which are getting their info from reporters living in Russia and from Russians in the Netherlands that tell about contact with their families in Russia, about 65% of the Russian population apparently actually believes that.

Russia is one big orwellian dystopia atm.

Nieuwsuur (our daily news talkshow) had a report on it this evening. In Dutch, don't know if our NPO offers english subtitels, they might.
https://www.npostart.nl/nieuwsuur/01-03-2022/VPWON_1334456

EDIT: I think it only has dutch subtitels in the settings
This contradicts the general sentiment I have seen online and IRL.
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voliol

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #394 on: March 02, 2022, 05:52:59 am »

Russia state TV describes it as a limited military operation to take out nazis in Ukraine and protect the Ukrainian people.

Accoring to the news and background articles over here in the Netherlands, which are getting their info from reporters living in Russia and from Russians in the Netherlands that tell about contact with their families in Russia, about 65% of the Russian population apparently actually believes that.

Russia is one big orwellian dystopia atm.

Nieuwsuur (our daily news talkshow) had a report on it this evening. In Dutch, don't know if our NPO offers english subtitels, they might.
https://www.npostart.nl/nieuwsuur/01-03-2022/VPWON_1334456

EDIT: I think it only has dutch subtitels in the settings
This contradicts the general sentiment I have seen online and IRL.

It is in the interest of states setting up for a war with Russia that the general Russian populace seems "out there", just like Putin wants to set up portray Ukrainians as nazis. Putin may be spreading false numbers on his support as well. Be aware of propaganda from all sides in these times.

LordBaal

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #395 on: March 02, 2022, 05:56:44 am »

Perhaps Im giving way too much credit to an obviusly mad homicide that is drinking his own KoolAid, but why the botched invasion? Why send barely conscript troops. Russia has professional troops and equipment that could have acomplished the Ukraine take over quickly, or in theory they must have them.

In chess sometimes your opening moves are sacrificing your pawns because they are the most "useless" pieces to lure your enemy into a trap.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 07:07:34 am by LordBaal »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #396 on: March 02, 2022, 06:04:04 am »

The paratroopr units that habe been repeatedly clowned on are Russia's most elote amd prestegious troops.  The SHORAD systems being blown up by Ukranian drones are the latest amd most capable models in Russian service. Sp are the tanks being blown up by Javelins or driven into rivers.

These are Russia's best units. They're not using the Zapp Nrannigan strategy of sacrificong wave after wave of their own men to find a weak point. This is genuinekynthe best they can do.
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KittyTac

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #397 on: March 02, 2022, 06:31:19 am »

This is less sacrificing pawns and more like just straight up hanging three pawns, two knights, and a rook in a suicidal assault against a castle enemy king.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #398 on: March 02, 2022, 07:46:13 am »

Perhaps Im giving way too much credit to an obviusly mad homicide that is drinking his own KoolAid, but why the botched invasion? Why send barely conscript troops. Russia has professional troops and equipment that could have acomplished the Ukraine take over quickly, or in theory they must have them.

In chess sometimes your opening moves are sacrificing your pawns because they are the most "useless" pieces to lure your enemy into a trap.
From my armchair general seat I can think of a few plausible things that persuaded Putin's logic and current shambles

1. Overestimation of own strength and underestimation of Ukrainian strength. Certainly before this disastrous offensive, the Russian military was esteemed following the successes it had in the 2014 Crimean/Eastern Ukraine invasions and the Syrian civil war intervention. The notion that Russia could be able to overwhelm the Ukrainian mililtary by attacking on three fronts with a vast, mobile and numerically superior force wasn't and still isn't unlikely. No one could see the complete collapse of Russian morale, which coupled with the inverse stiff resolve of Ukrainian military & civilian coming lol, made for a situation where Russian numerical superiority couldn't even be used to its full effect. No point having more soldiers if they don't want to follow orders - the recent reports of Russian marines refusing to assault Odessa is showing that even Russia's elite armed forces don't want to shoot at Ukrainians.

If the Russian armed forces seriously believed in invading Ukraine, they could probably still pull it off. But they haven't even mobilised half of their land forces and seem incredibly hesitant to use their air force so a considerable sum of Russian power just isn't being deployed. Couple that with the Ukrainian forces already being a tough bunch, and all the foreign equipment and training they've received since 2015 like through Operation Orbital, the Ukrainians are stronger than Putin may have presumed whilst his own forces aren't communicating with each other (elite units have been shot down in areas that were known to be dangerous to other branches of the Russian military), aren't following orders, are willingly leaking information and abandoning equipment to Ukraine e.t.c.

This is legitimately just a complete failure. There is no trap here

2. The conscripts were just there to hold territory after the elite troops gained ground. You need a lot of troops to garrison a city and the conscripts could fill the boots. Of course this never materialised because the elite troops got repelled

*EDIT
Relevant quote:
Quote
“The Russians are discovering that coordinating multi-domain operations is not easy,” Deptula told Reuters. “And that they are not as good as they presumed they were.”
This is why transport planes are getting sent into areas not covered by Russian SAMs and getting shot down; this is why Russian vehicles are being sent ahead of Russian air cover and blown up. The air force, army and navy are not at the level of interservice coordination and control comparable to say, the US armed forces
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 07:51:33 am by Loud Whispers »
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Strongpoint

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #399 on: March 02, 2022, 08:02:33 am »

More than 2000 civilians killed so far during Russian invasion - Ukrainian emergency service
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martinuzz

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #400 on: March 02, 2022, 08:41:06 am »

Remember Turkey? A military coup was ended there by civilians throwing themselves in front of tanks.
The same is happening at small scale in Ukrainian towns.

I wonder what would happen if the women and children from Kiev would go confront the troops surrounding their cities in an unarmed protest.
It would possibly end the war by mass defection because the vast majority of the Russian forces don't want to shoot their brother and sister Ukrainians even when they're armed, let alone unarmed. The Russian forces that are evil enough to do so aren't in Ukraine, they're back in Russia beating and kicking Russian protestors.
Morale for a lot of them is already near shattering point. They were told they'd be fighting nazis but they find themselves fighting teachers and nurses, and being told so by every civilian they pass in every village on the road.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 08:44:40 am by martinuzz »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #401 on: March 02, 2022, 09:16:03 am »

Perhaps Im giving way too much credit to an obviusly mad homicide that is drinking his own KoolAid, but why the botched invasion? Why send barely conscript troops. Russia has professional troops and equipment that could have acomplished the Ukraine take over quickly, or in theory they must have them.

In chess sometimes your opening moves are sacrificing your pawns because they are the most "useless" pieces to lure your enemy into a trap.

I've said this before, but Putin is not and never was a soldier. He was a spook, a propaganda wonk. That's why the KGB-style psyops shit has been the only thing he's done half-competently.

The invasion absolutely smacks of Hitlerish "I have absolute power and not a fucking clue, but I'm not going to listen to my own generals." He went in with ~200k troops, the vast majority of which were conscripts/reservists who were coerced into the invasion on the night of it with threats of 20-year prison terms or execution, using mostly refurbished pre-'91 equipment, against close to double their number of defenders. It's like someone gave him the cliff's notes explanation of technological overmatch, he zoned out while they were explaining that you have to actually have technological superiority like the U.S. & co. did in Iraq in 1991 and 2003, and then he also was so pig-ignorant that it's not even a case of the Russian forces outrunning their supply train but that they apparently didn't have one to begin with.

Sheer and total incompetence backed by a delusional belief in his and Russia's superiority. He believes the BS mythos around himself and thinks he's living in the 1950s in terms of military doctrine. There's been more footage surfacing claiming to be taken from Ukrainian-operated TB2s and it looks like this convoy is going to be the most target-rich environment any drone operator has ever seen. Effective combat drones have done to massed pushes of armor and mechanized infantry what the latter did to static defenses. I saw an interesting take about how he's deluded in part because Russia has the capability to produce modern equipment but not in useful quantities, so what does get made is channeled into elite units (i.e. the ones that keep getting wiped out because he keeps sending their transports into contested airspace) and propaganda units. Everyone else is still using poorly maintained Soviet retrofits.

I mean for god's sake he hasn't even achieved air superiority and he's just pushing in waves of half-trained infantry who are dying in droves because they don't have the knowledge or discipline to get out of their IFVs.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #402 on: March 02, 2022, 10:07:49 am »

I mean for god's sake he hasn't even achieved air superiority and he's just pushing in waves of half-trained infantry who are dying in droves because they don't have the knowledge or discipline to get out of their IFVs.

Major air superiority is there. What Russia doesn't have is air supremacy. Something USSR\Russia had in every war since WW2. They don't have a clue how to fight when the enemy has their own airforce.
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martinuzz

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #403 on: March 02, 2022, 10:16:33 am »

Navalny has called upon the Russian population to protest against the invasion of Ukraine, every day at 19:00h, and in weekends at 14:00.
Thousands of people have been arrested the past week.
Navalny says that 'for every arrested protestor, two new have to rise up'.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #404 on: March 02, 2022, 10:22:41 am »

« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 10:25:56 am by MaxTheFox »
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