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[Garfunkel]

In multiple forts I've now had the problem where the marksdwarves dodge through the fortification in front of them and end up falling out of the archery tower to their deaths. At first I thought the problem was that I had carved entire segments of walls into fortifications but the problem persists even if there's only 2 out of the 14 possible wall tiles. Then I experimented and even if there's only 1 open tile, one marksdwarf after another will dodge through that single open tile and fall into the throng of goblins outside.

So, it seems to me that archery towers are now completely useless if the enemy has any ranged units and every siege has them. I guess archery tower might be useful against necromancers and beasts still but this is very disheartening. Are there some funky layout tricks I can use to eliminate this or should I just focus on traps and melee instead?

[qualiyah]

This is odd, because I've been using a system where I have enemies come through a long spiral tunnel with archers behind fortifications on the inside of the spiral, and I've never once had one of my archers dodge through the fortifications, even though there have been plenty of crossbowmen among the raiders. As far as I can tell, the crossbowmen never shoot at my archers at all--there's a trench in between the enemies and the fortifications, so while my dwarves can get right up next to the fortifications, the enemy archers can't, and that will generally prevent them from shooting at all. Only highly skilled archers can shoot through fortifications they're not standing adjacent to, and few enemies are that skilled.

So...are you sure your dwarves are dodging straight through the fortifications rather than climbing over them somehow? If you construct the fortifications, I think you might need to also build a floor on top of each fortification.

[Maloy]

There is a bug that causes them to teleport through fortifications and walls when dodging
type of structure doesn't seem to effect it

but I've stuck to making my walls and fortifications 2 blocks thick and this seems to prevent it

So a two block thick fortification line seems to prevent it


I say seem. It's worked for me the whole time, but I can't say that is the official fix for it

[Garfunkel]

My archery towers are completely sealed otherwise. I build walls out of stone blocks and then carve fortifications into them. Goblins definitely shoot at my towers even though they can't path to the fortifications, there are broken bolts and arrows on the top and around them too, and I've seen them do it. Unless pathing counts climbing, despite them not being able to climb multiple levels of smooth walls.

There is a bug that causes them to teleport through fortifications and walls when dodging
type of structure doesn't seem to effect it

but I've stuck to making my walls and fortifications 2 blocks thick and this seems to prevent it

So a two block thick fortification line seems to prevent it

That's very interesting! I'll have to give it a try in my next fort and see if it works.

[anewaname]

I believe the dwarfs are literally attempting to climb out the window and down the wall to attack, because they want to charge the enemy but there there is no walk-able path to the enemy. You will also see melee units climb into trees to attack sometimes.

Some posts about dwarfs jumping out of archer towers, and players talking about the why of the problems and their solutions (via a google search):
Easy archer tower design that stops dwarves from jumping through fortifications
Archer Tower total Fail
Marksdwarves rushing to their death
Markdwarves aren't reloading Ammo when stationed

[Garfunkel]

Okay so looks like my only chance is to try to make the archery tower with walls and carve those into fortifications and in addition to have a single floor "overhang" around it to minimize the chances of archers charging goblins outside.

Or then give up on marksdwarves completely.

[Uthimienure]

Don't give up!

FWIW my 20-year fort has about 25 marksdorfs and using this stone block tower with carved fortifications on level 2 has never caused a problem.  I just station them on that floor and they do their job flawlessly, never jumping out of the tower even when enemies come right up next to it.

Sorry if the GIF is too slow.

[Thisfox]

...I actually like the slow progression of this gif. How did you make it damn well slow down to human vision speeds? It's excellent.

[Uthimienure]

...I actually like the slow progression of this gif. How did you make it damn well slow down to human vision speeds? It's excellent.

Cool.  Instead of DF's video capture, I used GifCam.exe (it's a freebie I like because it has neat options & resizable capture window).
The speed is actually how slowly I was changing z-levels.

[Salmeuk]

...I actually like the slow progression of this gif. How did you make it damn well slow down to human vision speeds? It's excellent.

conversely, if you use the program ScreentoGif, you can adjust the ms delay per frame to something like 500 (.5 seconds) and end up with a nice and slow gif. lets you keep the quality up too since the gif will only be like 8 frames, depending on purpose of course


on topic, I would rebuild with a moat and see if that makes a difference. you also might be in a unique situation where enemies have some unexpected angle that causes more sustained fire, causing more dodges and more occurrences of the teleport bug? I dunno, DF problems come with so many variables your best bet is to chalk it up to 'confounding bs' and rebuild until it works. Usually.

There is a bug that causes them to teleport through fortifications and walls when dodging
type of structure doesn't seem to effect it

but I've stuck to making my walls and fortifications 2 blocks thick and this seems to prevent it

So a two block thick fortification line seems to prevent it


I say seem. It's worked for me the whole time, but I can't say that is the official fix for it

Curious, I wasn't aware our own dwarves would successfully shoot through 2-z of fortifications? Not that I tested it. Is that a thing?

[Garfunkel]

Wiki says it is a thing but I haven't tried it yet.

I wonder if part of the problem comes from my towers being very small - the tower in the GIF seems to be quite massive.

[Uthimienure]

Not sure about tower size, but I can station lots of dorfs comfortably in that tower, and I put the "move to" target right up next to the fortification.


I'm just wondering about two things that *seem* like they might be factors.

1. If crossbowdorfs are also trained in hammer skill, are they more likely to want to melee?
2. If crossbowdorfs have low archery/xbow skills, are they more likely to prefer melee?

Anyone know?

(in my case, I don't train them in hammer)

[Staalo]

It might be a personality issue as well. In my current fort I usually see only the same three (out of 12) crossbowdwarves consistently trying to path through the entire fortress and bash the goblins' heads in; they all have their VIOLENT trait at "likes to brawl" or better. Might be a coincidence of course.

[anewaname]

The military orders for a dwarf, and the pathing order given for those military orders, are important here. A dwarf given military orders will attempt to obey them. Those orders will move the dwarf to the map position where the dwarf's personality might have an effect on their actions and on their combat effectiveness.

So, when a marksdwarf is in a tower and runs out of ammo and can still see their target, they will receive a path order to move to the enemy's current location. If their path is broken or no enemy is in sight when they get there, they will usually attempt to refill their ammo, and then their next order will be to go back to their archery tower to continue their Move/Patrol/Train/Defend order that put them in the tower in the first place). I'm still not sure how to avoid the situation where a marksdwarf successfully paths through the fort and bravely starts melee with a horde (instead of running back into the fort in fear as they should).

[Bumber]

conversely, if you use the program ScreentoGif, you can adjust the ms delay per frame to something like 500 (.5 seconds) and end up with a nice and slow gif. lets you keep the quality up too since the gif will only be like 8 frames, depending on purpose of course

GifCam will automatically combine frames if there's no artifacting going on.