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[Roden]

Why Jack specifically? As one of the protector roles.. I agree with NJW being a good person to pressure, though keeping my vote on Max.

I don't actually disagree about looking more into Jack. I thought the statistics post he made earlier was kinda sketchy, and I'm not confident that he's playing into his usual town meta. I understand that he feels half-hearted about this game since his only role is to die, so I don't scum read him for his tone. But if we can figure out his alignment today, it'll make your Parity check on him tonight a lot easier to understand.

[Maximum Spin]

Look, I'm going to be really, really nice, just this once.
If you lynch me, and I flip town (which I will), will you be any closer to figuring out who is mafia? Will you have gained anything, or just move on to your next best suspects?
What I want to do is lynch the person whose flip will most narrow down the suspects, regardless of what it is. I have been clear on this many times in the past.
I understand that your poorly-thought-out reaction results from never having read any of the games I was in before. I thought you had even been in some of them, but maybe I'm misremembering. So, I'd assumed originally that you were more informed than you clearly are. Therefore, even though you are being obnoxious and don't deserve help, I am going to explain.
There are three key sources of certain information in the game: death flips, investigative results, and choices of action targets, especially from mafia actions. Until we have one of those things, reads are meaningless. It's just a bunch of uncollapsed wavefunctions. For example, Tric is either town OR mafia with an experienced partner OR [...]. (There are weights on all the ORs, but that's not relevant to the point.) Until some of those wavefunctions collapse, I don't want to even try to explain them, for a few reasons, the most important of which is that they change when observed.
Being asked a bunch of dumbass questions completely kills my interest in participating, because not only do I not have answers, my brain does not even work that way. You might as well ask me whether green. "Do [I] think [you're] suspicious", I think everyone's suspicious, not even just in the game.

Oh good, I am cut off by a post that's actually useful and interesting.

It's more so because you don't even want to share your reads. Even if you don't want to write out a list, I don't really see a progression with your posts where I could pin point what you think of everyone else. At most, we know you suspect Web, and it's implied you think Vector and I are also scummy since you don't believe the Captain info. But not all three of us can be scum, so I ultimately don't know what you actually think of anyone besides Web.

That's because I don't think of everyone else. What I mean is I don't have a list of reads, that doesn't exist, I just have this big web of connections, and I don't want to share them yet. You are wrong to think I suspect Web, you, or Victor. You are also wrong to think I specifically "don't believe the Captain info" - I am neutral on it.
Ultimately that is the big difference in how I play this game and also, honestly, 95% of life. I am neutral on things until I have information. So no, you're right, I can't contribute a hell of a lot d1. D1 is this annoying dead zone for me that I just want to get through as quickly as possible without doing too much damage. The last place I played we had a consistent d1 no-lynch rule put in place by a good friend whose brain works basically the same as mine. That was great, but I'm under no illusions that it will happen here, so I try to parse who will split the web best. I'm not even trying to "catch scum" d1, honestly, I just want to split the web so I know where scum are. I don't believe in trying to mind-read people, that's rookie shit.
And also, just, basically, don't try to read into what I say. I am really a very direct person. If I suspect somebody I will say "I suspect [x] of being mafia", not hint at it. My policy is radical honesty.

[NJW2000]

Question: Why townread Roden even though Roden is "one of the two" discussing being under a Captain's thumb?

I have no idea who you're quoting when you say ' "one of the two" ', but I'll assume the marks got in there by accident or it's scare quotes or something. I townread Roden because... he's been reasonably active pushing discussion forward, I wouldn't expect scum to immediately claim a jailor role and the captaincy thing because that information is likely useful to town in many ways and has a high chance of catching out Scum if they claim or fakeclaim it. So what I said, basically. Maybe that's not really answering your question, in which case rephrase it and I'll try again.

Everyone else: Could Maximum Spin be too scummy to be scum?

No, because that's not possible. I'm not saying he's lockscum, but nobody is ever too scummy to be scum, that's WIFOM at best.


Aaaand it looks like people are engaging with Max on his theories about mafia and how it impacts his play. That's going to be a productive discussion.

The last place I played we had a consistent d1 no-lynch rule put in place by a good friend whose brain works basically the same as mine.

Unrelated to the game at hand, why did you leave to play here?


Ok, not even a desultory gesture towards a Tric lynch, we're just letting players build up a meta for scum-sided play on the assumption that they're easily read. No way that could go wrong.


Webadict: very precisely, what's the rationale for your desire to lynch Max? I don't mean in terms of his behaviour, I mean in terms of how it affects the likelihood of you winning the game.

[Maximum Spin]

Unrelated to the game at hand, why did you leave to play here?

Most of the players either left over time or literally died. It was a pretty high average age.

[Vector]

Hi, I'm stabilized. I need to get back up to speed but ask me whatever you want, grill the shit out of me. I'm good to go

[webadict]

Look, I'm going to be really, really nice, just this once.
If you lynch me, and I flip town (which I will), will you be any closer to figuring out who is mafia? Will you have gained anything, or just move on to your next best suspects?
What I want to do is lynch the person whose flip will most narrow down the suspects, regardless of what it is. I have been clear on this many times in the past.
I understand that your poorly-thought-out reaction results from never having read any of the games I was in before. I thought you had even been in some of them, but maybe I'm misremembering. So, I'd assumed originally that you were more informed than you clearly are. Therefore, even though you are being obnoxious and don't deserve help, I am going to explain.
There are three key sources of certain information in the game: death flips, investigative results, and choices of action targets, especially from mafia actions. Until we have one of those things, reads are meaningless. It's just a bunch of uncollapsed wavefunctions. For example, Tric is either town OR mafia with an experienced partner OR [...]. (There are weights on all the ORs, but that's not relevant to the point.) Until some of those wavefunctions collapse, I don't want to even try to explain them, for a few reasons, the most important of which is that they change when observed.
Being asked a bunch of dumbass questions completely kills my interest in participating, because not only do I not have answers, my brain does not even work that way. You might as well ask me whether green. "Do [I] think [you're] suspicious", I think everyone's suspicious, not even just in the game.

Oh good, I am cut off by a post that's actually useful and interesting.

It's more so because you don't even want to share your reads. Even if you don't want to write out a list, I don't really see a progression with your posts where I could pin point what you think of everyone else. At most, we know you suspect Web, and it's implied you think Vector and I are also scummy since you don't believe the Captain info. But not all three of us can be scum, so I ultimately don't know what you actually think of anyone besides Web.

That's because I don't think of everyone else. What I mean is I don't have a list of reads, that doesn't exist, I just have this big web of connections, and I don't want to share them yet. You are wrong to think I suspect Web, you, or Victor. You are also wrong to think I specifically "don't believe the Captain info" - I am neutral on it.
Ultimately that is the big difference in how I play this game and also, honestly, 95% of life. I am neutral on things until I have information. So no, you're right, I can't contribute a hell of a lot d1. D1 is this annoying dead zone for me that I just want to get through as quickly as possible without doing too much damage. The last place I played we had a consistent d1 no-lynch rule put in place by a good friend whose brain works basically the same as mine. That was great, but I'm under no illusions that it will happen here, so I try to parse who will split the web best. I'm not even trying to "catch scum" d1, honestly, I just want to split the web so I know where scum are. I don't believe in trying to mind-read people, that's rookie shit.
And also, just, basically, don't try to read into what I say. I am really a very direct person. If I suspect somebody I will say "I suspect [x] of being mafia", not hint at it. My policy is radical honesty.

Unfortunately, I'm the shittiest rookie mind-reader there is, which is why you need to take this nookie and highchair. Give me a sec, I'm setting the mood, and I'm sort of done dealing with your attitude.

You're a quarter right, but you might forget that you've kinda got seven other people to let in on your plans to defeat me, man, but hey, I guess you can keep playing like your hands-up. Stand up, band up, take another chance, up until you finally die, my guy, you can give it a try, and that's why I'm telling you to stop being shy.

Obviously, the pressure works, and our quirk of getting you to finally spill the beans for the peons isn't just a free con, almost feels like I've got my pleats on, but I don't yet. Let's pretend (before we descend into insanity) that you actually see the benefits of going after me. And if that's the case, then you'll need a case (and as such I want to see you face debasement.)

I couldn't really care about your life philosophy, since you're playing a game based on sophistry. Show me why I'm wrong, play along, or get stronger, cuz I'm not gonna take your shit any longer.

Executing me would be a misstep, and quite a let down, mostly because the mafia wants my crown and life, a much better trade would be the NPC, who couldn't see why working together would really help our plight. But if that's the case, I'd have to commend, that you might've unintentionally defended yourself, which is what the entire point of our strife was.

Thus, you'll plainly see, Mr. Maximum Spin, that I've started this entire post with a win-dow into your soul, trolling for your thoughts from an empty bowl. I know you're hungry, but give me a minute, I just wanted to take this whole game for a spin-it.

You'll notice, perhaps, how little I care for there to be a barely believable theory in your weary letters, and to do you one better, I made this reply a mood setter and extraordinarily wry. Why, because I needed one of us to try, and it might let finally eat some humble pie.

But, unlikely, because, as I said before, your words frankly bore me, a chore to read and refute them a second more. But, here I am (as I was before) ready to drop you and the mic to the floor.

Let's start with the meaningless: the reading list. We can't take your word until you have a track record. On the other hand, you've got the rest of us, bound by noose and sword, and you aren't heeding shit that we give you's.

If you can't answer a simple question, at what hest can we just send our in best men in to get done in? If I were to follow you, it'd be awful, and we'd wallow in the maws of the Mafia.

Contribute what you can and develop a style, because I don't think you understand you're on trial.

[TricMagic]

Look, I'm going to be really, really nice, just this once.
If you lynch me, and I flip town (which I will), will you be any closer to figuring out who is mafia? Will you have gained anything, or just move on to your next best suspects?
What I want to do is lynch the person whose flip will most narrow down the suspects, regardless of what it is. I have been clear on this many times in the past.
I understand that your poorly-thought-out reaction results from never having read any of the games I was in before. I thought you had even been in some of them, but maybe I'm misremembering. So, I'd assumed originally that you were more informed than you clearly are. Therefore, even though you are being obnoxious and don't deserve help, I am going to explain.
There are three key sources of certain information in the game: death flips, investigative results, and choices of action targets, especially from mafia actions. Until we have one of those things, reads are meaningless. It's just a bunch of uncollapsed wavefunctions. For example, Tric is either town OR mafia with an experienced partner OR [...]. (There are weights on all the ORs, but that's not relevant to the point.) Until some of those wavefunctions collapse, I don't want to even try to explain them, for a few reasons, the most important of which is that they change when observed.
Being asked a bunch of dumbass questions completely kills my interest in participating, because not only do I not have answers, my brain does not even work that way. You might as well ask me whether green. "Do [I] think [you're] suspicious", I think everyone's suspicious, not even just in the game.

Oh good, I am cut off by a post that's actually useful and interesting.

It's more so because you don't even want to share your reads. Even if you don't want to write out a list, I don't really see a progression with your posts where I could pin point what you think of everyone else. At most, we know you suspect Web, and it's implied you think Vector and I are also scummy since you don't believe the Captain info. But not all three of us can be scum, so I ultimately don't know what you actually think of anyone besides Web.

That's because I don't think of everyone else. What I mean is I don't have a list of reads, that doesn't exist, I just have this big web of connections, and I don't want to share them yet. You are wrong to think I suspect Web, you, or Victor. You are also wrong to think I specifically "don't believe the Captain info" - I am neutral on it.
Ultimately that is the big difference in how I play this game and also, honestly, 95% of life. I am neutral on things until I have information. So no, you're right, I can't contribute a hell of a lot d1. D1 is this annoying dead zone for me that I just want to get through as quickly as possible without doing too much damage. The last place I played we had a consistent d1 no-lynch rule put in place by a good friend whose brain works basically the same as mine. That was great, but I'm under no illusions that it will happen here, so I try to parse who will split the web best. I'm not even trying to "catch scum" d1, honestly, I just want to split the web so I know where scum are. I don't believe in trying to mind-read people, that's rookie shit.
And also, just, basically, don't try to read into what I say. I am really a very direct person. If I suspect somebody I will say "I suspect [x] of being mafia", not hint at it. My policy is radical honesty.

Unfortunately, I'm the shittiest rookie mind-reader there is, which is why you need to take this nookie and highchair. Give me a sec, I'm setting the mood, and I'm sort of done dealing with your attitude.

You're a quarter right, but you might forget that you've kinda got seven other people to let in on your plans to defeat me, man, but hey, I guess you can keep playing like your hands-up. Stand up, band up, take another chance, up until you finally die, my guy, you can give it a try, and that's why I'm telling you to stop being shy.

Obviously, the pressure works, and our quirk of getting you to finally spill the beans for the peons isn't just a free con, almost feels like I've got my pleats on, but I don't yet. Let's pretend (before we descend into insanity) that you actually see the benefits of going after me. And if that's the case, then you'll need a case (and as such I want to see you face debasement.)

I couldn't really care about your life philosophy, since you're playing a game based on sophistry. Show me why I'm wrong, play along, or get stronger, cuz I'm not gonna take your shit any longer.

Executing me would be a misstep, and quite a let down, mostly because the mafia wants my crown and life, a much better trade would be the NPC, who couldn't see why working together would really help our plight. But if that's the case, I'd have to commend, that you might've unintentionally defended yourself, which is what the entire point of our strife was.

Thus, you'll plainly see, Mr. Maximum Spin, that I've started this entire post with a win-dow into your soul, trolling for your thoughts from an empty bowl. I know you're hungry, but give me a minute, I just wanted to take this whole game for a spin-it.

You'll notice, perhaps, how little I care for there to be a barely believable theory in your weary letters, and to do you one better, I made this reply a mood setter and extraordinarily wry. Why, because I needed one of us to try, and it might let finally eat some humble pie.

But, unlikely, because, as I said before, your words frankly bore me, a chore to read and refute them a second more. But, here I am (as I was before) ready to drop you and the mic to the floor.

Let's start with the meaningless: the reading list. We can't take your word until you have a track record. On the other hand, you've got the rest of us, bound by noose and sword, and you aren't heeding shit that we give you's.

If you can't answer a simple question, at what hest can we just send our in best men in to get done in? If I were to follow you, it'd be awful, and we'd wallow in the maws of the Mafia.

Contribute what you can and develop a style, because I don't think you understand you're on trial.

Claps. Even if wedadict is mafia, he's got style. Let's see Max Spin, how many miles?

[webadict]

Question: Why townread Roden even though Roden is "one of the two" discussing being under a Captain's thumb?

I have no idea who you're quoting when you say ' "one of the two" ', but I'll assume the marks got in there by accident or it's scare quotes or something. I townread Roden because... he's been reasonably active pushing discussion forward, I wouldn't expect scum to immediately claim a jailor role and the captaincy thing because that information is likely useful to town in many ways and has a high chance of catching out Scum if they claim or fakeclaim it. So what I said, basically. Maybe that's not really answering your question, in which case rephrase it and I'll try again.


Ok, not even a desultory gesture towards a Tric lynch, we're just letting players build up a meta for scum-sided play on the assumption that they're easily read. No way that could go wrong.


Webadict: very precisely, what's the rationale for your desire to lynch Max? I don't mean in terms of his behaviour, I mean in terms of how it affects the likelihood of you winning the game.

1) We aren't executing Tric unless you have the hardest of proofs. It's not happening, and you're wrong if you think Tric is scum.
2) The quotes are because there's THREE people with Captain claims, when you said there were two. Also, Roden is very likely Town as well, so there's no worries there.
3) I was under the impression that Maximum Spin would be the likeliest candidate to be scum. I'm less under that impression now, but I'd still execute them out of spite. If anything, Maximum Spin finally explaining their reasoning is helpful, and explains a little bit better why they're doing things. They're horribly wrong, mind you, but their logic could be construed as consistent to a fault the size of San Andreas.

[webadict]

Hi, I'm stabilized. I need to get back up to speed but ask me whatever you want, grill the shit out of me. I'm good to go

Hey Vector, are you Mafia? If you had to pick a flavor of ice cream from the following list, which would you choose:

a) Vanilla; b) Chocolate; c) I'm Mafia; or d) you'd invent a new type of ice cream made of half soy and half oat dairy-substitute.

This question is pointless because I actually want to hear your reads and maybe have your take on who's top suspect right now?

[NJW2000]

2) The quotes are because there's THREE people with Captain claims, when you said there were two. Also, Roden is very likely Town as well, so there's no worries there.

Show me where I said this or I'm going to have to assume you prioritise frequent posting over actually reading the thread.

[webadict]

2) The quotes are because there's THREE people with Captain claims, when you said there were two. Also, Roden is very likely Town as well, so there's no worries there.

Show me where I said this or I'm going to have to assume you prioritise frequent posting over actually reading the thread.

Nah. If I got it wrong, someone else said it, but I don't really care because it's not important. I just explained why it was quoted. Don't pop a blood vessel. You should consider wasting your time and energy on other things, like posting frequently and rap battling.

Sorry, I actually don't know how to read or write, so if this makes any sense to you, it's entirely coincidental.

[Maximum Spin]

I'm not even gonna read that.

[webadict]

I'm not even gonna read that.

You never were going to because your playstyle relies on computational analysis, and as such, I am likely your worst nightmare. I will never tell the truth to you, give partial facts, and always be whatever you think I'm not. I am the wild card, an unknown variable, mucking up the equation that you believe this game to be. Frankly, it's almost a good plan. It's just, you know, also illogical from your own point of view. Like you stated before, you believe that No Launch is the optimal D1 play, but that you've had to adjust your playstyle to match the meta here. But, honestly, that IS the logical move here. If you No Launch, then a player dies tonight and you can work with 7p instead of 8p. Not only that, but your plan also fails the rudimentary smell test, which is that you want to random launch, which would be 28% chance from a Town's perspective. If you performed this same feat Tomorrow, it'd be 33% chance, which is (if you weren't aware) higher. It'd also give you information to work with and would fit the odd-number of players test.

So, not only do I not believe that you're following purely logical playstyle at the moment, I actually believe that your true motivation is purely that of convenience. I am the player you will never be able to read. If I am gone, that is merely an improvement for you. Any one player would probably do, but you're not really interested in maximizing the chances of hitting scum for information, no. You're interested in my removal specifically. If I didn't exist, it'd probably be ToonyMan. Assuming, of course, you were completely logical about it.

But, that's actually a fascinating stance. See, I could reasonably deduce that you might be Town from that stance. However, it could just as likely be that you're disgruntled Mafia. If you were Mafia, you'd be getting massive flak in Mafiachat, probs, so unless your buddy is ToonyMan or NJW (who appears to be trying their best to provide a bit of cover), that'd be the only logical pairing for me. EuchreJack... Maybe, but it seems a bit presumptuous. Really, I haven't seen enough Jack to know if they're really the trump suit or not, and Vector is technically possible. Tric and Roden are impossible. They can't be your scumbuddy because they're both Town.

If you want to be neutral, be logically neutral. You don't have to pretend you can see what others see. You don't even have to pretend that we see anything. But, the game is about getting into the minds of your fellow players. Trying to deduce this game through actions is a recipe for disaster when you encounter the brick wall.

[ToonyMan]

Okay I'm back and really tired. I'll read the thread tomorrow after sleeping.

[FallacyofUrist]

I am also back and similarly somewhat tired. I'll see what I can do about a votecount, since that seems useful right now.

In other news, Maximum Spin needs a replacement. I knew trying to run a bigger game was trying to tempt fate.