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[ToonyMan]

I don't mean that if NQT wants to shorten that makes them mafia, just that we'll find out shortly from Jim's flip.

I will shorten if NQT doesn't do it by tonight though.

NQT can't drop in with a "lol shorten" post anyway since there's a chance me and Tric could pull items to stop him tonight if Jim is town.

[ToonyMan]

Didn't catch the NQT post.

I'm happy to hammer. Shorten. Toony, you were wrong about Fallacy but your reading of me was correct, as we shall all shortly see.

Awesome. Sorry FoU.

[Toaster]

notquitethere: Jim Groovester,
TricMagic:
Jim Groovester: ToonyMan, notquitethere, TricMagic
ToonyMan:


Not Voting: 


Jim Groovester is today's selected target.  Flinging accusations and insults, the other three surround him.  He narrows his eyes, then steps back and draws a dagger, pointing it at each in turn.  "I...  I didn't even want to work for the Necromancer!  We were forced!  We had no choice!  BluarianKnight forced me into it; it was all him!  I'm just a scavenger!"  He backs into a corner.  The others advance.

"Please!  Let me go!  Let me out of here!  You can stop this stupid... Gah!"  Jim grabs his head and staggers, a small trail of blood leaking out his nose.  "Must... stop... can't... no!"  He flings himself at Notquitethere, attempting to stab him.  The other Scavenger falls backwards into the ancient debris of the floor.  TricMagic, true to his name, pulls out a bag of powder and throws it in Jim's face.

"Stop this nonsense!  Get off him!"

"Never... I... must..."  Jim steps back, lurching back and forth... then slashes again at TricMagic, the blade nearing his throat...

Jim falls to the floor, stone dead.  ToonyMan sighs, the Warrior already wiping off his blade.  "Fool.  Why trifle with evil magic?  It clearly owned him... all the more reason to break this attack."

With no more arguments, the group moves on to find the focus.  A couple hours of walking down into the depths finds it, tucked away into a sealed room which the bishop's key opens.  The walk back, though grim, feels faster than the trip down here.  You make your delivery to the bishop.  Nodding his thanks, he calls in his fellow monks and shoos the group out.  Watching from the top of the gate, the magic chanting fills the air... and bursts into a crescendo.  A wave of positive energy blasts from the monastery, eradicating the undead in its path.  The monastery is safe once more.

The crew packs their bags and heads their separate ways.  Notquitethere stays behind, now offered a permanent position at the monastery.  ToonyMan hitches a ride with the caravan that was stuck inside, replacing a guard that fell in the initial fight.  And Tric heads back to the city, his head filled with new verses.


Jim Groovester has been lynched!  He was a Scavenger (Mafia).

Game over!  Town has won!

[Toaster]

Scum Chat
Dead Chat

Actions
Flavor


Thought that all went pretty well.  Good play at the beginning, but the mafia got penned in by night actions.  I think (at least in this current environment) that the night actions give too much information and it should be cut back... but it does make it harder to write flavor.

Also, I think it's time for the public pool to go.  I'm not sure what it actually adds to the game except being a headache for me.  Can anyone think of a convincing reason for it to stay?

[notquitethere]

Good game gang. I think I played fine for most of the game, except the very beginning where I wasn't particularly present. This created a sort of residual suspicion that I found hard to entirely shake off even after upping my engagement.

I should have found the joint bussing between Jim and Blu less alignment indicative, that's something I'll try to bring forward. I can be pleased though I managed to spot one scum player on D1.

It didn't come up, but I actually had a wand of protection with another charge of it, not a scroll. I kept that secret in case I needed to protect someone if we went into the night with three players.


Toaster, what you could do to make it less night-solvable but still retain flavour, is keep the acting-upon flavour but avoid most of the being-acted-upon flavour. So if the general rule is players don't know if they've been randomised or blessed or blocked etc. Alternatively, put some more elements in to discourage early mass-claims. Some possible ideas:
- a third-party hoarder who has the ability to steal known items
- more illusionary scrolls so mafia can fake action reports
- instead of acting at night, players can opt to raid the public pool or quest a second time -> this may lead to more players unaccounted for in any given set of claims


As for the public pool: as a scavenger there was never a good reason to go to the pool. In general it's even more of a gamble than normal questing, as it's going to be stuffed with items that weren't good enough for the dead people to want to use them. Did anyone pick up anything really good from it this game?

[ToonyMan]

GGs.

I was on autopilot most of the game until FoU flipped town which blew my mind. I spent the night actually reading all of Day 1 and I'm glad I was correct.

Jim was going to kill Tric on N3...interesting. If I blocked NQT instead that would have been pretty rough for Jim to explain.

The Scroll of Attraction I used was from Pref, thanks Pref. I will never CFD again.

[notquitethere]

Prefuzek's lynch was really interesting in a way in that he was mainly guilty of being defended as town by me, who people thought might be scum but couldn't lynch D1. It really was so insubstantial.

[EuchreJack]

I think Prefuzek's lynch was due to their newness.  Their meta could not be read, thus they were a liability.  Nothing a couple more games can't fix!

At least, players of this game are likely to give Prefuzek the benefit of the doubt in future games after this mislynch.  Will they use that to win as mafia? Who knows!

@Toony & Web: No more CFD.  You both came across as scum in my eyes due to that.

@Mafia: You should have killed Toonyman on day 1.  That, I think, cost you the game.  But hey, I won, so thanks!
Otherwise, good game Jim.  Blue did as good as they could with getting penned in by the items and players.  Very good scum play, overall.

[ToonyMan]

I didn't think FoU or Pref were mafia at EoD1. I was literally losing my mind in the last hour probably because I hadn't been paying attention to the game. My last actual vote was on Bluarian which shows how having a cool and calm mind let's you win as town instead of freaking the fuck out and vote hopping.

I think Prefuzek's lynch was due to their newness.  Their meta could not be read, thus they were a liability.  Nothing a couple more games can't fix!

That's so not true. Pref's D1 play was super townie and competent. If you're voting someone for being unfamiliar that's just bad.

[Toaster]

Toaster, what you could do to make it less night-solvable but still retain flavour, is keep the acting-upon flavour but avoid most of the being-acted-upon flavour. So if the general rule is players don't know if they've been randomised or blessed or blocked etc. Alternatively, put some more elements in to discourage early mass-claims. Some possible ideas:
- a third-party hoarder who has the ability to steal known items
- more illusionary scrolls so mafia can fake action reports
- instead of acting at night, players can opt to raid the public pool or quest a second time -> this may lead to more players unaccounted for in any given set of claims


As for the public pool: as a scavenger there was never a good reason to go to the pool. In general it's even more of a gamble than normal questing, as it's going to be stuffed with items that weren't good enough for the dead people to want to use them. Did anyone pick up anything really good from it this game?

Interesting on the hoarder third party.  I've certainly played with the alignment setups in this game, but I've never really gone off the rails with interesting setups.  I'll toy with some collection-based ideas.

"Decoy Potion [Uncommon]:  Name a player.  You are seen visiting this player."  Ideas like this?

I do like the idea of replacing the pool with night quests.  I could just redefine !none into quest again, though letting scavengers double-quest again feels like a lot.


Speaking of, Scavengers, how did you like your class?

[EuchreJack]

I didn't think FoU or Pref were mafia at EoD1. I was literally losing my mind in the last hour probably because I hadn't been paying attention to the game. My last actual vote was on Bluarian which shows how having a cool and calm mind let's you win as town instead of freaking the fuck out and vote hopping.

I think Prefuzek's lynch was due to their newness.  Their meta could not be read, thus they were a liability.  Nothing a couple more games can't fix!

That's so not true. Pref's D1 play was super townie and competent. If you're voting someone for being unfamiliar that's just bad.

And if you had said that, Pref probably wouldn't have been lynched.  See, I can say things that hurt other people's feelings too.
I thought they were scummy, ergo I voted them.

[notquitethere]

"Decoy Potion :  Name a player.  You are seen visiting this player."  Ideas like this?

Yeah something like that, or it could be a fake blessing like "Name a player. Choose an effect out of "Bless Armor", "Curse Armor", "Block", "Poisoned". The chosen player will receive a report saying that they have been subject to that effect." Could add a couple more possibilities. Just the existence of this potion would throw into doubt many otherwise confirming claims

Letting scavengers double-quest again feels like a lot.

Sure, you could limit it to the first quest per cycle (especially if their second quest has the normal % chance of getting artefacts).

Speaking of, Scavengers, how did you like your class?

I thought it was quite useful. I always had an item accumulated that was of some use for any given night.

[prefuzek]

Good game! I had fun, and I thought all the CFD's at the end of day 1 were hilarious (though I was a little annoyed it ended on me).

At least, players of this game are likely to give Prefuzek the benefit of the doubt in future games after this mislynch.  Will they use that to win as mafia? Who knows!

Oh you bet I will.

Another option for helping scum out in the night is to allow them to use common items in addition to the scumkill.

[Jim Groovester]

This was a good game.

In retrospect there were some misplays I wouldn't have made if I were better prepared for the game I was playing, but I think I did okay, except for milo. Maybe one of these days I'll be scum while not having a mid life crisis or whatever it is that's bothering me.

The game looks a lot different if the night game doesn't provide so much information. Being able to mechanically out a scum player as the killer at 7p is nuts, as is making two confirmed townies at 5p because of a redirect.

I think I had a shot at milo by going maximum effort mode but it was going to be an uphill battle regardless.

Also, BK is pretty good at being scum. It would help his scum game a lot if he could ever play a town game.

Speaking of, Scavengers, how did you like your class?

I feel like the scum team gets less benefit from the random item game in general since they can't both night kill and use an item. Having more items was of less use and the innate qualities of the class I.e. kill bypassing or redirection resistance would have been more useful.

[webadict]

@Toony & Web: No more CFD.  You both came across as scum in my eyes due to that.

... No.

Toaster, some ways to balance/improve the game:
(Game speed related, and mostly things I like)
- 51% Shortens. Always.
- Generate items at Day start instead. Gives everyone time to plan, instead of learning at Day end and having to think.
(Balance-related)
- Action economy favors Town hard. Make the Mafiakill a bonus action instead. Gives some help to blending in without making it impossible to read action logic.
- Make claiming items super bad. Thieves stealing an item during the Day if they know their target owns it would be great.
- Scavengers are OP af. Way too many items, especially since the decrease in rarity is almost negligible.
- % abilities should have scaling effects, so a Ranger/Warrior/etc has a chance to make the flip (33% becomes 66% on a fail, then 99% on a second fail, and resets when it hits.)
- Archeologist should benefit harder.
(QoL-related)
- Make the public pool... Public? Also, make it only contain the items of the dead players within the last Day. This gives meaningful choices on what to do, since you can pick a specific item, instead of psuedorandom.
(Cool ideas-related)
- Make class-related items?
- Multi-classing??
- Prestige classes!?
- Progressive item rarities: Day 1 - 65/35/0/0, Day 2 - 50/30/20/0, Day 3 - 35/25/35/5, Day 4 - 20/20/50/10, Day 5 - 5/15/65/15, but, like, better balanced?!
- A guaranteed Artifact somehow!?!
- Amulet of Yendor!!!