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[Rose]

PTW

[Shonai_Dweller]

Personally, I remember why I was drawn to the game in the first place: Partly because of its memetic difficulty, but even moreso because of its reputation for simulationism. What I have always wanted most out of all my games is detailed, accurate simulation. So in this case I don't care if DF is hard or easy, as long as it's correct, which to me means that dwarves behave in a way that's psychologically realistic... which, based on my life experience, pretty much means they should be freaking out from stress all the time.

I really think what this comes down to, to a large degree, is disagreement about what DF is. Is it a game to be balanced, or a simulation to be accurate? I've always thought of it as the latter, and it would be disappointing to me for it to go the other way, but ultimately that decision is up to the dev.

It's meant to be a simulated world that provides a fun game experience. Or at least, it's meant to be an exploration on whether such a thing is truly possible without scripting.

A dwarven mercenary with a hundred kills who has survived 70 years of constant warfare, freaking out and killing themselves in 6 months over a tooth and some rain just because they moved to a player controlled fortress isn't fun or.....whatever the word is if it's not realistic, um.."immersive"? enough. But might be expected behaviour of the peaceful fisherman who's lived next to an underground monster-free lake all their lives.

So, the system can't work "correctly" until past experience has some relevance to your migrants. In the meantime, current version is fun and ripe to embrace the horrors of Improved Sieges until a better version of stress comes along. Players, in the end, even those who love the simulation, find hundreds of dwarves being slaughtered by bad guys more interesting than hundreds of dwarves dying of stress.

[Maximum Spin]

A dwarven mercenary with a hundred kills who has survived 70 years of constant warfare, freaking out and killing themselves in 6 months over a tooth and some rain just because they moved to a player controlled fortress isn't fun or.....whatever the word is if it's not realistic, um.."immersive"? enough. But might be expected behaviour of the peaceful fisherman who's lived next to an underground monster-free lake all their lives.

Yes, this sounds like the right way to do things.

[Nopenope]

DF isn't supposed to be balanced or even realistic, it's supposed to be narratively interesting. It has to make for a good story at the end. (That's why there are no toilets in the game.) Having all your dwarves freak out all the time isn't very interesting, and understandably corners have to be cut, for instance to create nice little character arcs where creatures harden in the face of trauma and adversity.

[Bumber]

Okay, so my necro is down to 10k stress.

That other dwarf that seemed fixable? Not so much. Looks like he suffered a personality shift after experiencing trauma, and his stress is up to 18k despite a bunch of positive thoughts. He won't go insane due to creating an artifact, but if he starts to tantrum spiral I'll probably drown him and raise him as undead. Edit: I let him die of thirst in jail.

[FrankVill]

I'd also note that Vettlingr's tileset, which seems to be rather popular, comes with modified raws that reduce the STRESS_VULNERABILITY for dwarves. Something to keep in mind when testing stress in the current version.

Thanks for mentioning this, I didn't realize it was set to 0:25:100 so I changed it back to the default 0:45:100.  Cheers!

Hi! What file is STRESS_VULNERABILITY in?

[Shonai_Dweller]

I'd also note that Vettlingr's tileset, which seems to be rather popular, comes with modified raws that reduce the STRESS_VULNERABILITY for dwarves. Something to keep in mind when testing stress in the current version.

Thanks for mentioning this, I didn't realize it was set to 0:25:100 so I changed it back to the default 0:45:100.  Cheers!

Hi! What file is STRESS_VULNERABILITY in?

raw/objects/Creature_standard.txt (contains entries for dwarves, elves, humans, goblins, kobolds, etc)

[Nilsolm]

One thing I've noticed recently: It seems that anger propensity has a quite noticeable effect on stress. I have three dwarves who are in a constant state of internal rage (anger propensity above 90 according to Therapist), and they are constantly "angry after getting into an argument".

That appears to be steadily increasing their stress, and there is little that can be done to counteract it. My usual way of dealing with stress is to let them have a lot of free time, but that doesn't work here, because they just keep arguing with others in the tavern. I tried giving them stress-reducing jobs (mining, engraving) and chucking them into the military, but that only reduced their stress temporarily. None of them has snapped yet, but they might eventually. They haven't been around for very long.

[Rose]

One thing I've noticed recently: It seems that anger propensity has a quite noticeable effect on stress. I have three dwarves who are in a constant state of internal rage (anger propensity above 90 according to Therapist), and they are constantly "angry after getting into an argument".

That appears to be steadily increasing their stress, and there is little that can be done to counteract it. My usual way of dealing with stress is to let them have a lot of free time, but that doesn't work here, because they just keep arguing with others in the tavern. I tried giving them stress-reducing jobs (mining, engraving) and chucking them into the military, but that only reduced their stress temporarily. None of them has snapped yet, but they might eventually. They haven't been around for very long.

As somebody with anger issues, this sounds accurate.

[Pyrite]

I just wanted to pop in and say that I saw a dwarf go over to the carpenter while they were working and had an apparently satisfying intellectual conversation. I was super stoked to see this happen, as it removes the need for a lot of social micromanagement, and is just extremely.realistic.

I really hope we'll see our dwarves trying to proactively solve nearly all of their needs in the future.

[vjek]

As a data point for stress in 47.05..
I created a world with dwarves, elves, and humans.  One dwarven civ, and 20+ each for elves and humans.  Pop cap and strict pop cap of zero, so no migrants, and 7 total dwarves for the entirety of the test.
No demons, no HFS, no goblins, no necromancers, vampires, titans, semi/megabeasts, forgotten beasts (didn't breach the caverns), or anything like that.  No personality, preference, skill, stat, or speed adjustments.  Just the starting seven, with all their random flaws and preferences.
Embarked in an Untamed Wilderness, set up a trade depot, and waited.
Set up a farm, a well, and some (glass improved silk crafts) industries to sell to the traders. 
Elves, Humans, and Dwarves, all arrived in their seasons, as expected, and trading with them was successful.
Repeated this for 5 years.
Stress levels are all zero or less, according to Dwarf Therapist, after five years.
The dwarves had:  A large tavern.  A well. A large dining room. Beds. Access to a variety of booze.  Prepared meals.  A local king who took that position after the first year.  Mugs.  Chairs.  Tables.  Manager, Broker, Bookkeeper, Expedition Leader.
The dwarves did not have: Individual bedrooms, a dormitory, any bedrooms at all, statues, instruments, animals/pets, a place to worship/pray, a militia, hammerer, sheriff, or chief medical dwarf.

Happy to upload the world/save if anyone is interested, but it seems like satisfying at least some of their major needs for many years is sustainable up to at least 5 years.  In the past, this same experiment would typically result in at least one tantrum-ing, melancholy, or similar leading-to-death mental illness, depression, or anger situation in less than 3 years.
I'm going to continue to run the fort for over ten years to see if anything significant changes, on the stress side of things.

[clinodev]

[...] I had previously used a DFHack cheat, so everybody was ecstatic going in, [...]

On that note, in my going around and asking folks for their feedback on stress in 47.05, I've begun asking those who reported no stress at all whether they were certain they'd reverted any 47.04 stress-related raw changes, DFhack effects, and so on, and had two admit with embarrassment they indeed had not. The first I asked because I know he habitually adds several additional civilized races as opponents, and I've been asking everyone since.

Just something to keep in mind. Neither of them have made reports in this thread.

I'd also note that Vettlingr's tileset, which seems to be rather popular, comes with modified raws that reduce the STRESS_VULNERABILITY for dwarves. Something to keep in mind when testing stress in the current version.

Just a heads up that this has been reverted in the most recent version of vettlingr's tileset, which is included in the PeridexisErrant Starter Pack.

[Immortal-D]

I have updated the OP with a summary of findings thus far.  Still rather generic and small, but the biggest take-away from my own testing is that stress is now more of a novelty than a serious gameplay mechanic.  In my current playthrough, I created 2 separated mini-forts on the same embark, with the only difference being that one side had to deal with all of the sentient corpses and rubbish collection from butchering.  Most of the Dwarves on that side reached "doesn't care about anything" status within 2 years.  That timeframe is likely very accelerated for me, due to concentrating all of the corpses and such in a small area.  One Dorf on the non-corpse side eventually hit "haggard and drawn" due to not being able to practice a craft.  Seriously, that was all he thought about, despite having every other luxury available.  That's all I've got for now.  Keep it coming!

[Shonai_Dweller]

As mentioned on another thread, perhaps "doesn't care about anything any more" as a phrase can be revised, or more levels of description added. Since, contrary to the description, dwarves with this trait are still perfectly capable of feeling fond of their friends or lusty after watching elven dancers, etc. Even stopping at "getting used to hardship" for all but the recently resurrected (who really don't feel anything any more) would work.

[Bumber]

Got another dwarf with high stress. A marksdwarf that had his personality shifted to a constant state of internal rage after experiencing trauma. He keeps getting angry after getting into arguments and dwelling upon an old one.