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[notquitethere]

Lucky,

See this:

He voted Webadict first not expecting me to hammer, his mistake.

I didn't expect someone to hammer while I was asleep but I'm not sure why Toony thinks hammering while I said I'd be away would be less suspicious. And then he follows it up with this line which is frankly incoherent:

NQT is claiming I'm scum because scum would never bus when he knows his buddy 4mask voted Webadict too.

Can you work out what argument Toony is making here because I can't? My EOD comment was just that it was very unlikely for Wuba to be scum (and in fact, he wasn't) because it would have required all three town players to line up on someone.

I'm not sure Toony could even give a town-centred reason why he would quickhammer.

[notquitethere]

Incidentally, look at this exchange between me and 4mask:

[snip]...I know what I'm looking to see. Do you know what I'm looking to see?

Nope.  You're you, I'm me.  I know what I'm looking for though.

This was a hostile and unhelpful response from scum!4mask, but what I was hoping a town!4mask would have grasped is that I wanted to see what all town players want to see: who wants it more? Who is going to fight to make the right call or who is going to be lazy or opportunistic?

[ToonyMan]

@Luckyowl:

ToonyMan: Wasn't it your vote that got Webadict expelled from this house? Also, you said something about Mafia's would stick together. So me and Webadict must be the Mafia. However Webadict flipped town. What do you think about me now?

Yes it was, but I was confident you were partners with Webadict. The fact Webadict didn't shoot me is telling. Now that I know he's town and 4mask was mafia, it's a completely different story but very easy to solve.

At day start I was 99% sure you were town after the Web flip. This is due to your actions throughout the day. I did not think you were working with anybody at that point. Now I'm 100% sure because otherwise you would have quickhammered NQT. I know I'm town so it's 100% NQT.


@NQT:

This is cute, scum team voted each other first thing:

Toonyman stole the cookie from the cookie jar![/b][/i]

@4maskwolf:

This is a classic move. You don't always see it, but often enough (see scum!Persus doing it in the last ProcGen game). Scum at the start don't want to make any needless enemies. They're sniffing around, waiting until town find town scum. Any town they vote for is going to be an enemy. This is what's happened here with ToonyMan and 4mask.

So I put the flagbearer at L-1 to avoid voting town?

Also, worth being clear here: I know LuckyOwl is 100% town, even if we ignore all the D1 dumbtells. A scum!Owl would have just hammered me.

This is true.

[notquitethere]

It was a bold move but I'm sure you can't have expected a town player to quickhammer 4mask in the first hour of play.

[ToonyMan]

Sorry, my phone post earlier wasn't very clear. NQT and 4mask both voted Webadict and I fell for their bait thinking for sure Webadict and Luckyowl were the mafia team. They saw how Luckyowl and Webadict were interacting and took advantage of the situation to put Web at L-1, this way either myself or Lucky would have a high chance of hammering incorrectly.

I didn't expect someone to hammer while I was asleep but I'm not sure why Toony thinks hammering while I said I'd be away would be less suspicious.

This isn't true. NQT is throwing shade on my hammer knowing it could cause the D2 mislynch.

It was a bold move but I'm sure you can't have expected a town player to quickhammer 4mask in the first hour of play.

Obviously you wouldn't hammer your flagbearer partner, NQT.

[notquitethere]

Lucky, look at this. Toony keeps saying he thought Lucky+Webadict was the team...

thinking for sure Webadict and Luckyowl were the mafia team.

But why was he so certain of it? Makes no sense.

And then you can see here him deliberately confusing things:

This isn't true. NQT is throwing shade on my hammer knowing it could cause the D2 mislynch.

"NQT is throwing shade on my hammer" is not an explanation for hammering or why hammering when I explicitly said I'd be away could possibly be a pro-town move if he thought I was town. Check the time stamps:

Heads up: I'm going to sleep for next 8 hours or so.

Webadict

And then you see him obfuscating things again:

Obviously you wouldn't hammer your flagbearer partner, NQT.

In the section he's quoting, I'm speculating about his possible motivations as scum!Toony and now he flips it around to frame things as my motivations if I were scum!NQT. He doesn't refute me, he just misdirects. Weak.

[notquitethere]

A simpler way of putting things is: the town perspective is characterised by extreme doubt and the willingness to entertain all the possibilities. Town don't know anything. What do we see in Toony? A false absolute certainty as to the scum team's composition, a few hours into D1.

[ToonyMan]

Lucky, look at this. Toony keeps saying he thought Lucky+Webadict was the team...

thinking for sure Webadict and Luckyowl were the mafia team.

But why was he so certain of it? Makes no sense.

I've address this, in chronological order:
1. NQT leaves a vote on Webadict.
2. Luckyowl asks the mod (Hector) if the flagbearer knows who their partner is.
3. Webadict proclaims that Luckyowl is town.
My extremely doubting mind thinks Webadict is scum partners with Luckyowl. Luckyowl is "inadvertently" confirming himself as town and Webadict immediately plays off of it.
4. 4mask puts Webadict at L-1 and belittles Luckyowl.
5. I hammer Webadict while I was writing another post because I'm confident they're scum at this point.
While I'm not 100% sure 4mask told NQT what he was doing, it's clear now this was their goal if me or Lucky hammered.

And then you see him obfuscating things again:

Obviously you wouldn't hammer your flagbearer partner, NQT.

In the section he's quoting, I'm speculating about his possible motivations as scum!Toony and now he flips it around to frame things as my motivations if I were scum!NQT. He doesn't refute me, he just misdirects. Weak.

Sorry I'm not thinking like scum.

[Luckyowl]

I will say. I think Notquitehere is notquitetown. Here's my reason.

1. Used an RVS vote between 4maskwolf and ToonyMan as evidence of ToonyMan being scum.

2. Made alignment read right before Webadict flipped town and 4maskwolf flipped scum. It could've been a coincidence, but it felt like a set up.

I won't vote as I want to here from them. So far, ToonyMan have been acting more like a typical townie. Always pointing fingers and doubting everyone around them. However NQH. Only had two post on day 1. First post an opening another an alignment read conviently posted right before the lynch post.

Anyways. You two can keep on going. We got until next Wednesday.

[notquitethere]

1. Used an RVS vote between 4maskwolf and ToonyMan as evidence of ToonyMan being scum.

I'm sorry Owl but you misunderstand me. I know Toony is scum. The fact you haven't hammered me is proof of that. I found it interesting that 4mask and Toony voted for one another, as it's a thing scum partners occasionally do in games (as my link showed) but I didn't mean that to be a cut and dry case against Toony.

2. Made alignment read right before Webadict flipped town and 4maskwolf flipped scum. It could've been a coincidence, but it felt like a set up.

Keep in mind when I posted that I knew for certain that Webadict was town because he had just made the vengekill shot, which obviously a dead mafia member wouldn't bother doing.

However NQH. Only had two post on day 1. First post an opening another an alignment read conviently posted right before the lynch post.

Here's how it went:

1- Day started late at night in GMT timezone, so I only had time for one post.
2- Toony hammered in the early hours of the morning
3- By the time I was awake and got back to the thread, I checked in on my phone. I saw that Webadict had been hammered and had posted his vengekill and so I offered some quick thoughts. I agreed with Webadict that you were town from all your dumbtells D1, and so logically that left only Toony and mask.

So D1 I didn't have time to do anything because Toony cut the day short when he knew I was asleep. Do you think that was typical townie behaviour? Do you think guessing the exact scumteam and then quickhammering is "doubting everyone around them"?

I haven't had the opportunity to do point fingers and doubt this game. I made one post, went to sleep, the hammer happened and by the time 4mask flipped scum and Toony voted me, it was mechanically obvious Toony was the remaining mafia member (again, because you haven't hammered me). So there was never a point outside my first post when I got to play the game in a completely uncertain and suspicious position. Does that make sense to you?

[Luckyowl]

Yes, it makes sense. If this happened to you I can understand why you weren't around for day 1. But why do you assume ToonyMan knew you were asleep? Is ToonyMan known for striking players depending on their time zone?

[notquitethere]

I explicitly said I was going to bed:

Heads up: I'm going to sleep for next 8 hours or so.

It doesn't get clearer than that that. He hammered about two hours after I posted this.

[Luckyowl]

I explicitly said I was going to bed:

Heads up: I'm going to sleep for next 8 hours or so.

It doesn't get clearer than that that. He hammered about two hours after I posted this.

*whistles* pretty damning. Got anything to say ToonyMan?

[hector13]

Recovering quickly from the recent betrayal, ToonyMan and notquitethere each produce voluminous binders which they claim proves without doubt that the other stole the cookies.

Luckyowl nods sagely with an “o rly?” at every point made.


Voting

ToonyMan (1) - notquitethere

Luckyowl (0) -

notquitethere (1) - ToonyMan

Not voting - Luckyowl

2 votes to hammer.

Day 2 ends on Wednesday January 13th at 2pm Central

[Luckyowl]

Hector: what happens if the votes are tied?