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[Toaster]

While I can see signs of Toony panicking a bit, I'm not convinced of the full merits of the case.  With under three hours to go it's awfully late to see anything change, so I guess we'll just see.  I'm willing to put myself down publicly as dubious of a Toony lynch.

Leafsnail is toeing the line between active lurking and just lurking.  It's hard to tell the difference, especially (for me) when my meta reads are incredibly dated.




TricMagic:

My idea of people on this list being scum is still true today. Particularly that whole toaster vote. Am I not allowed to pressure someone for being inconsistent if they're not on my scum list Toaster? Honestly looking back at the linked scum read post, luckyowl jumped on juicebox a bit quickly when they asked about trusting NT and TM. Leafsnail has mostly been under the radar for me most of this game, making clean informative posts. But the other names on that list have my suspicions. Might not mean much since I dropped off, but if I die tonight I'll have posted this.

The idea is your cases should have some logical merit to them.  You said he was inconsistent without explaining why.  None of this counters the original point of you being more self-interested than not.


Toony:

I also find Toaster's accusations of IcyTea and 4mask interesting, Toaster comes off as incredibly suspicious to me if IcyTea/4mask are legit.

I'm not willing to give them a free pass.  If I see anything (and I did) I'm going to follow up on it.

[Vector]

While I can see signs of Toony panicking a bit, I'm not convinced of the full merits of the case.  With under three hours to go it's awfully late to see anything change, so I guess we'll just see.  I'm willing to put myself down publicly as dubious of a Toony lynch.

Vector: you're greatly overestimating your role in my play.

Oh get off your high horse, Vector.

Thank you for the data.

[ToonyMan]

@4maskwolf:

Toonyman lost his mind at the mason claims.  He recovered since then, but he spent a good few hours wildly ping-ponging based almost entirely on the expressed views of non-mason members of the thread.  When initially claimed, he accepted it with some grumpiness.  When we didn't let up pressing him, he started looking for holes and trying to fish for information about our roles.  When called out on that, he revised history and claimed he'd "only been asking webadict for clarity" in spite of the quoted post being of him trying to fish for more information about "Hydraform" directly from icy.  When Fallacy started spouting conspiracy theories it was all aboard the conspiracy train for Toony.  And then finally, when cooler heads prevailed and the prevailing attitude became "wait and see, the truth will come out eventually", he went right back to "okay, they're probably masons, but I'm still angry about it."  While I think some of the cases on him, especially Dolores', are either pedantic or just plain lazy, I certainly think he's scum.

I'm not a huge fan of meta reads, but look at my paranoia of Jim in Bastard Paranormal 3. I'm not sure if you read it, but I was incredibly unsure of Jim's alignment and was asking the mod a ton of questions just for clarification. (I would consider myself town at that point in the game as well.)

It's certainly interesting.  I'm actually less interested in seeing Toony flip now than I am in seeing your flip, but I don't have any belief I could swing that with only hours left and half the game not present.  So I'll stick with Toonyman.

Bullshit. The day isn't over until the day is over. You do want to see me flip.


@Toaster:

While I can see signs of Toony panicking a bit, I'm not convinced of the full merits of the case.  With under three hours to go it's awfully late to see anything change, so I guess we'll just see.  I'm willing to put myself down publicly as dubious of a Toony lynch.
Leafsnail is toeing the line between active lurking and just lurking.  It's hard to tell the difference, especially (for me) when my meta reads are incredibly dated.

Going to leave it on TricMagic even though you're dubious of my lynch? Do you agree with me that Leafsnail needs to go? Enough to vote him?

I also find Toaster's accusations of IcyTea and 4mask interesting, Toaster comes off as incredibly suspicious to me if IcyTea/4mask are legit.

I'm not willing to give them a free pass.  If I see anything (and I did) I'm going to follow up on it.

Fair enough.

[4maskwolf]

It's certainly interesting.  I'm actually less interested in seeing Toony flip now than I am in seeing your flip, but I don't have any belief I could swing that with only hours left and half the game not present.  So I'll stick with Toonyman.

Bullshit. The day isn't over until the day is over. You do want to see me flip.

I do, yes.  I'm still interested in seeing you flip, but I'd also like to see NQT flip.

[Nirur Torir]

Nirur Torir especially jumped on that case like it was going out of style. 4th on the bandwagon, baby. If Toony flips town, so help me, I'm going to jump down your throat.

Yeah, a large 16 player roles heavy game is going to have people like me who'd rather spend day 1 lazily sniping interesting points from the sidelines instead of taking hours to do a deeper investigation of several people. Tough luck.

Trying and failing to refute the points against Toony convinced me to switch, and he hasn't done anything today to make himself a worse lynch choice than Tric. My vote stays.

[Toaster]

Toony:

@Toaster:

While I can see signs of Toony panicking a bit, I'm not convinced of the full merits of the case.  With under three hours to go it's awfully late to see anything change, so I guess we'll just see.  I'm willing to put myself down publicly as dubious of a Toony lynch.
Leafsnail is toeing the line between active lurking and just lurking.  It's hard to tell the difference, especially (for me) when my meta reads are incredibly dated.

Going to leave it on TricMagic even though you're dubious of my lynch? Do you agree with me that Leafsnail needs to go? Enough to vote him?

As of right now, yes.  I won't shed a tear over a Leafsnail lynch, but only on grounds that he isn't participating.  My read on his is fairly null; not neutral, null.  I don't have any compelling reason to vote him, but I wouldn't do anything to save him.

[notquitethere]

Nirur

Trying and failing to refute the points against Toony convinced me to switch, and he hasn't done anything today to make himself a worse lynch choice than Tric. My vote stays.

What's your take on Leafsnail? And will you be this indifferent on D2? What will you say about your vote if Toony flips town?

[notquitethere]

4mask

I do, yes.  I'm still interested in seeing you flip, but I'd also like to see NQT flip.

What kind of information will it tell you if Toony flips town or scum? How about me? Be brief and specific.

[ToonyMan]

@4maskwolf:

It's certainly interesting.  I'm actually less interested in seeing Toony flip now than I am in seeing your flip, but I don't have any belief I could swing that with only hours left and half the game not present.  So I'll stick with Toonyman.

Bullshit. The day isn't over until the day is over. You do want to see me flip.

I do, yes.  I'm still interested in seeing you flip, but I'd also like to see NQT flip.

You say you want to see NQT flip more, why aren't you voting him?


@Nirur Torir:

Nirur Torir especially jumped on that case like it was going out of style. 4th on the bandwagon, baby. If Toony flips town, so help me, I'm going to jump down your throat.

Yeah, a large 16 player roles heavy game is going to have people like me who'd rather spend day 1 lazily sniping interesting points from the sidelines instead of taking hours to do a deeper investigation of several people. Tough luck.

Cool, another helpful asset on Day 2.

Trying and failing to refute the points against Toony convinced me to switch, and he hasn't done anything today to make himself a worse lynch choice than Tric. My vote stays.

Can you explain?


@Toaster:

Toony:

@Toaster:

While I can see signs of Toony panicking a bit, I'm not convinced of the full merits of the case.  With under three hours to go it's awfully late to see anything change, so I guess we'll just see.  I'm willing to put myself down publicly as dubious of a Toony lynch.
Leafsnail is toeing the line between active lurking and just lurking.  It's hard to tell the difference, especially (for me) when my meta reads are incredibly dated.

Going to leave it on TricMagic even though you're dubious of my lynch? Do you agree with me that Leafsnail needs to go? Enough to vote him?

As of right now, yes.  I won't shed a tear over a Leafsnail lynch, but only on grounds that he isn't participating.  My read on his is fairly null; not neutral, null.  I don't have any compelling reason to vote him, but I wouldn't do anything to save him.

Do you think TricMagic has a serious chance of being lynched? If you don't like my lynch why aren't you voting Leafsnail? My lynch is very likely to happen otherwise.

[4maskwolf]

4mask

I do, yes.  I'm still interested in seeing you flip, but I'd also like to see NQT flip.

What kind of information will it tell you if Toony flips town or scum? How about me? Be brief and specific.

I'm not quite sure yet.  Things are moving quickly and that post came together as I wrote it,  I find it interesting you're willing to go so hard to the mat for Toonyman this late in the day, though.  You've personally canvassed first Fallacy and now Nirur to try and build your counterwagon on Leafsnail.

@4maskwolf:

It's certainly interesting.  I'm actually less interested in seeing Toony flip now than I am in seeing your flip, but I don't have any belief I could swing that with only hours left and half the game not present.  So I'll stick with Toonyman.

Bullshit. The day isn't over until the day is over. You do want to see me flip.

I do, yes.  I'm still interested in seeing you flip, but I'd also like to see NQT flip.

You say you want to see NQT flip more, why aren't you voting him?

Because "the day isn't over yet" is bullshit.  I don't have a proper case on NQT, there's no practiceable way for me to fish enough votes to get NQT on the block even if I can convince Icy to work with me on this.

Speaking of Icy, he just reminded me of a very cute turn of phrase that doesn't seem to apply here.

"Dead Air, Dead Townie."

[Nirur Torir]

What's your take on Leafsnail?

If lurking through D1 is his meta for scum, then he's going to have a tough time avoiding a D2 lynch.
He's still one of my scummiest reads, but I don't want to lynch someone D1 for lurking through the Christmas weekend in a big game, especially since the case on Toony is clear.

And will you be this indifferent on D2?

Probably not. I intend to start with FoU, who likes pushing my buttons by ignoring my sideline sniping question question about his weird behavior:

FoU: Are you only voting him because NQT said to vote someone? You're waffling a lot, going straight from: "It's not a scumtell for him to lurk because it's the holidays" to "Leafsnail hasn't helped town and I don't want scum to hammer Toony, so I'll vote Leafsnail. MAYBE!"

What will you say about your vote if Toony flips town?

I'd hide and try not to bring it up. And then probably die by angry Vector.

Trying and failing to refute the points against Toony convinced me to switch, and he hasn't done anything today to make himself a worse lynch choice than Tric. My vote stays.

Can you explain?

You're trying now, at least, but you spent to long acting like an impending lynch was a loss condition. Especially when you threatened to die with your pons.

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
dolores - 0 -
FallacyofUrist - 0 -
heydude6 - 0 -
IcyTea31 - 1 - Luckyowl*,
Jim Groovester - 0 -
juicebox - 0 -
Leafsnail - 4 - notquitethere*, ToonyMan*, juicebox*, FallacyofUrist*,
Luckyowl - 0 -
Nirur Torir - 0 -
NJW2000 - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 7 - 4maskwolf*, Nirur Torir*, TricMagic*, dolores*, NJW2000*, IcyTea31*, Vector*,
TricMagic - 3 - Leafsnail*, Jim Groovester*, Toaster*,
Vector - 0 -
No Lynch -

Not Voting - heydude6*,

9 to Hammer. Day ends on December 29, 2020 at 19:00 CST (1 hours and 44 minutes remaining.)

[ToonyMan]

@4maskwolf:

@4maskwolf:

It's certainly interesting.  I'm actually less interested in seeing Toony flip now than I am in seeing your flip, but I don't have any belief I could swing that with only hours left and half the game not present.  So I'll stick with Toonyman.

Bullshit. The day isn't over until the day is over. You do want to see me flip.

I do, yes.  I'm still interested in seeing you flip, but I'd also like to see NQT flip.

You say you want to see NQT flip more, why aren't you voting him?

Because "the day isn't over yet" is bullshit.  I don't have a proper case on NQT, there's no practiceable way for me to fish enough votes to get NQT on the block even if I can convince Icy to work with me on this.

I don't believe you. Why do you want to see NQT's flip more than mine but not follow through on it?


@Nirur Torir:

What's your take on Leafsnail?

If lurking through D1 is his meta for scum, then he's going to have a tough time avoiding a D2 lynch.
He's still one of my scummiest reads, but I don't want to lynch someone D1 for lurking through the Christmas weekend in a big game, especially since the case on Toony is clear.

So I should have peaced out for Christmas vacation instead? Why can other players lurk?

Why is my case clear? I've thoroughly explained my thought process and suspicions for everything. You're just saying that without thinking, bad voting.

Trying and failing to refute the points against Toony convinced me to switch, and he hasn't done anything today to make himself a worse lynch choice than Tric. My vote stays.

Can you explain?

You're trying now, at least, but you spent to long acting like an impending lynch was a loss condition. Especially when you threatened to die with your pons.

It's never too late. And you're being misleading, we went over my thoughts on my pons now.

[notquitethere]

4mask

I find it interesting you're willing to go so hard to the mat for Toonyman this late in the day, though.  You've personally canvassed first Fallacy and now Nirur to try and build your counterwagon on Leafsnail.

I know the classic Bay12 approach would be to let people sit on votes that don't do anything and sleepwalk into mislynch after mislynch,  but I'd prefer to try to play more effectively. I don't think Toony is the best person to lynch today, I think Leafsnail is a better pick and so I'm going to try to make that a reality.

Do you think town players shouldn't put their neck on the line and try to make things happen, even when they can't be certain?

Nirur, at least you're honest. But you know that approach isn't effective play. Be brave now.


Jim, Toaster, if you two get in the thread before the end, you should know the Tric vote isnt going anywhere, it's Toony or Leafsnail now. So nail your colours to the mast.

[TricMagic]

I honestly have no clue what will happen to the pons.

A counterwagon against Leafsanil is possible even this late. However like others said, haven't really found a read on him compared to others. Turning the lynch back on me is also possible, however it could easily turn against scum at this point.

I would like one last statement from heydude6 before the day ends though. These last hours are showing both scum and town in argument, barring all the scum in fact being the lurkers. But mafia don't win games by lurking. Not much else I can say...