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[IcyTea31]

I am indeed in a masonry with 4maskwolf.

We're confirmed town to each other, have a secret chat, and are immune to alignment conversion.

[4maskwolf]

Icy tea and I are masons.

So what, has all the scumhunting you've coordinated just happened to come out of your mouth and that's why you never followed up on it?
Do you actually know that you know each other's alignments?

We do, yes. And no, it has little to do with my lack of activity, I just preferred to play XCOM than post here this weekend is all.

[dolores]

ToonyMan

[NJW2000]

I'm liking the case on Toonyman right now, as beautifully set out by dolores and IcyTea. Bandwagon, ho!

In the same post, you say you don't trust either me or dolores. Are you just bandwagoning, or did you reach the same conclusions on your own?

I did wonder if anyone would ask that - saying "bandwagon" was meant to be suggestive. This sort of response was what I was hoping for - though I would never have dared to hope the very next post would be such a fascinating reply.

I never said I don't trust you. It almost goes without saying that there is exactly one person of the sixteen playing that I trust, and that person's username is NJW2000. I don't trust dolores either. I did say some other stuff about you two, but nothing about trust. I do think that the self-vote, and some of your other early play, seems deliberately calculated to look like you're playing badly completely knowingly. I don't even want to engage with that stuff. However, a great deal of your other play has been rational and helpful - like the exchange with heydude, and at first glance your case on Toony. Not sure what this has to do with anything, but there's my read of you, you seemed to want it. "Trust" is an odd word to use in mafia. Surely I could distrust you, but agree with your analyses?

Given you were the last to air suspicions about Toony, I feel it's rather strange that you're asking me if I'm bandwagoning. I hunted him first, dolores picked up on what I was saying, Vector voted him on the basis of his readslist, then finally you agreed with dolores' analysis, as well as posting a detailed analysis on why his case on you was also scummy. My vote was the second to last on him, sure - but you were the last to give any indication you think he's scum. Did I reach your conclusions on my own? Well yes, as to a great extent the conclusions you claim here to have reached but not typed up before dolores were my conclusions from scumhunting Toony. Don't you agree?

You do now seem motivated by a genuine desire to help Town, and I think we should reward that.

Occam's razor for "Tric has a genuine desire to help Town" is just"Tric is town", in which case killing him doesn't help the town. Do you have a reason to think that he's actually an anti-town alignment (in the sense that town needs him dead to win) and not just a player who is willing to throw out the daygame in order to play with a shiny toy?

I reject this use of Occam's razor, a third party about to be lynched would have a genuine desire to see town lynch scum. Also I did mean that Tric seems at certain points to have this desire - we should reward him actually helping town. I am unsure whether he is third party or a town player who just wants hats.
No, I do not have such a reason.

Noted mason stuff. Not sure what to think yet - don't want to keep getting drawn back into the immediate. Also need to get outside for a bit.


Having such strong players so suddenly chime in on someone I was pressuring, giving cases and votes in a single day, does make me feel slightly uneasy, to be honest. Like an idiot beagle happily running at the front of a pack of wolves... Nonetheless, this is the lynch I shall pursue, mafia over potential third party. The long day closes.

[dolores]

I hunted him first, dolores picked up on what I was saying, Vector voted him on the basis of his readslist, then finally you agreed with dolores' analysis, as well as posting a detailed analysis on why his case on you was also scummy.

Toonyman

I had a note in my file to go read through Toonyman's posts and see what I thought of them, and there... really isn't much to talk about, despite having a fairly normal post count and several reasonably long posts.
...

Why didn't you vote ToonyMan when you unvoted LuckyOwl?

[IcyTea31]

you were the last to give any indication you think he's scum

Not exactly correct.

ToonyMan:
Started with a couple good looks, especially in dealing with dolores, but I don't fully understand the motivation to completely disengage from me. General strategy is orthodox if outdated; townish  in general but I consider it more likely to be scum acting "town" rather than town!Toony. Don't know their metagame well enough.

Did I reach your conclusions on my own? Well yes, as to a great extent the conclusions you claim here to have reached but not typed up before dolores were my conclusions from scumhunting Toony. Don't you agree?

Sure. Just had a problem with the brevity of your vote post, and why you hadn't collated the case yourself earlier.

Having such strong players so suddenly chime in on someone I was pressuring, giving cases and votes in a single day, does make me feel slightly uneasy, to be honest.

Welcome to end-of-day.

[4maskwolf]

NJW: counterpoint, a third party about to be lynched has a vested interest in making someone else more suspicious than them, not in helping the town find mafia. Actually, the only third parties with a vested interest in finding mafia are the “bonus” scum like cults and sks who are directly hostile to the town as well. So long as they get out of immediate danger whether a third party cares about town or scum is dependent of specific alignment and gamestate (Ex. A survivor with only one scum left has an interest in finding the remaining scum to end the game ASAP while a survivor at LYLO has an interest in voting with the scum, and a survivor in the early game only cares that someone else dies).

[ToonyMan]

PFP

@Vector:
I inherently don't trust most people in a game of mafia, sorry. Why is this suspicious?

It's not reasonable for a player to build 15 cases against every other player. Most players I haven't seriously interacted with, this is going to happen on a 16 player Day 1. Same is true for most players.

@dolores & NJW2000:
Your suspicions are justified. I do have knowledge that makes me think Heydude is likely benign. No, it's not because I'm scum. Yes, it's because of an ability. I didn't instantly think Heydude was town after two posts, it starts here. I would have been upset if he was modkilled after I just learned useful info (plus I think he's town so that helps us if he doesn't get modkilled).

@4mask & IcyTea:

Icy tea and I are masons.

Uh huh. Makes sense to protect your buddy IcyTea.

Well, I'm not claiming shit unless I'm going to die in a few minutes from a lynch. I don't like everybody claiming on Day 1. If scum want to hammer to silence me before I can claim feel free.

[IcyTea31]

Well, I'm not claiming shit unless I'm going to die in a few minutes from a lynch. I don't like everybody claiming on Day 1. If scum want to hammer to silence me before I can claim feel free.

So...you're going to go silent now to avoid spilling your buddies, rather than mount a defence? A townie would want to avoid a mislynch.

[ToonyMan]

PFP

Well, I'm not claiming shit unless I'm going to die in a few minutes from a lynch. I don't like everybody claiming on Day 1. If scum want to hammer to silence me before I can claim feel free.

So...you're going to go silent now to avoid spilling your buddies

This isn't true, at all. I'm spilling my guts if I'm 100% certain of my lynch because I know I'll flip town. It's probably pretty reasonable I could get votes off me by full-claiming, but this only benefits scum's decision-making at night. If this wasn't Day 1 I might consider claiming earlier if I was pressured (or had really damning evidence on scum).

Stop playing bad if you're really a mason.

rather than mount a defence? A townie would want to avoid a mislynch.

Yeah, I don't want a mislynch. TricMagic and Leafsnail (and Vector now) haven't responded to me, which you can't see because they aren't here.
I just said my piece for everybody's cases on me right above. I'm not rolling over to die, there's plenty of time in the day and players to suspect who just need to be here now.

My lynch pick right now is either TricMagic or Leafsnail. I have questions waiting on both of them as well as Vector. I'll be able to post more fully later in the real life day.

[NJW2000]

Why didn't you vote ToonyMan when you unvoted LuckyOwl?

No strong reason. I wasn't sure who I wanted to lynch, didn't think a Toonyman lynch would be a possibility, and was satisfied with the level of pressure I was exerting on Toony - he was already responding in a somewhat telling way. I felt changing what was quite obviously a pressure vote from LuckyOwl to Toony was unnecessary.

Also yep, 4mask was in there too. Forgot about him. Ok, my picture of events was a little off, IcyTea asking me if I'm bandwagoning is less egregious than I thought (although still a little irksome, given I was hunting Toony.)

ToonyMan:
Started with a couple good looks, especially in dealing with dolores, but I don't fully understand the motivation to completely disengage from me. General strategy is orthodox if outdated; townish  in general but I consider it more likely to be scum acting "town" rather than town!Toony. Don't know their metagame well enough.

Fair enough, you did finger them as likely scum twenty pages ago, point taken. I retract the suggestion that you were last to the table.

Did I reach your conclusions on my own? Well yes, as to a great extent the conclusions you claim here to have reached but not typed up before dolores were my conclusions from scumhunting Toony. Don't you agree?

Sure. Just had a problem with the brevity of your vote post, and why you hadn't collated the case yourself earlier.

I see. Brief voteposts are a way to see if anyone's awake, and what they'll do with the low hanging fruit.
I hadn't collated the case because I still had questions for Toony.

Your suspicions are justified. I do have knowledge that makes me think Heydude is likely benign. No, it's not because I'm scum. Yes, it's because of an ability. I didn't instantly think Heydude was town after two posts, it starts here. I would have been upset if he was modkilled after I just learned useful info (plus I think he's town so that helps us if he doesn't get modkilled).

So a post claiming an ability that led to a belief Heydude is benign, and an interpretation of an earlier post that could suggest this belief.
I'll think about this.

[4maskwolf]

4mask & IcyTea:

Icy tea and I are masons.

Uh huh. Makes sense to protect your buddy IcyTea.

This is such a horrendously bad take I have difficulty seeing it as anything other than a scum knee-jerk. Protect him from what, the one person voting him? There are plenty of legitimate concerns that could be raised around our claim, but “you’re just trying to protect him” after the wagon has already collapsed isn’t one of them.

[dolores]

For anyone wondering about my stance on 4maskwolf post reveal:
Here's the crux of my case:

Having gone through all that, I'm reasonably convinced 4maskwolf doesn't give a shit about anyone's alignment.

Here's the response:

I just preferred to play XCOM than post here this weekend is all.

Normally this kind of refusal to engage and get read is a huge problem, but I've got ICT as a proxy to 4maskwolf's alignment so in this case it doesn't impact really anything at all.
I'm not committing to a hard read on ICT at all at this point but I will say he's a pretty long way from the pointed end of my shitlist. Doubling his mechanical surface area and having a proxy for his alignment that's able to flip if it dies doesn't make me any more anxious to see him lynched.

Icy tea and I are masons.

Uh huh. Makes sense to protect your buddy IcyTea.

This is literally the opposite of what is happening (anti-wifom planned reveal aside). The best reads on 4maskwolf in this game were "I forgot he was playing", and I think more people were waiting on answers from him than on anyone else besides maybe Tric and you.

[webadict]

Lurker Track
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Last post was 1 hour ago.
dolores - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 Last post was less than an hour ago.
FallacyofUrist - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 Last post was 8 hours ago.
heydude6 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Last post was 14 hours ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 Last post was 1 hour ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Last post was 8 hours ago.
juicebox - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Last post was 11 hours ago.
Leafsnail - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Last post was 16 hours ago.
Luckyowl - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 Last post was 13 hours ago.
Nirur Torir - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Last post was 11 hours ago.
NJW2000 - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Last post was 1 hour ago.
notquitethere - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Last post was 20 hours ago.
Toaster - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Last post was 15 hours ago.
ToonyMan - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Last post was 1 hour ago.
TricMagic - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Last post was 16 hours ago.
Vector - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 Last post was 8 hours ago.

[Luckyowl]

Nirur Torir:

"Heydude6, Luckyowl: We have 4 mafia confirmed, and you're my top town picks. Who are your top 4 scum picks?"
   

Reply: Right now, my top 4 scum picks are:

IcyTea31: His response to my question. Makes me feel something is off here.
 

"No, but if the name of the ability you gave has nothing to do with the lyrics of any famous song from the seventies, you know that it's changed."
 

IcyTea31: I can't really know if he's telling the truth and I'm just suppose to take his word for it. It's probably true. But it's that small chance that bothers me. IcyTea31 have been playing sporadic as the other players has stated. And Dolores read is sort of what I felt IcyTea31 is doing. He's gambling his chance. And for the most part he's playing it well enough where people think he's just townie trying out a new playstyle. But this sort of respect and reputation IcyTea31 can exploit if he's mafia.

So I'll try my luck with this.

Webadict  : Did you change the name of our abilities when I used my SM?

This will either aid or damn IcyTea31. If Webadict says yes. Then he's telling the truth and I can trust him a little. If it comes out no. Then he's going to be my scum pick for day 1.(also IcyTea31, what's the deal with this imposter and secret chat? Everyone seems to have brush it under the rug. )
==============================================
FOU :  It was his weird accusation that me and IcyTea31 are working together that makes me want to slap him in my crumbled up scumlist. And he went through this whole length to investigate of  our interaction. It honestly looks stage to me. And I think there's a possible IcyTea31-FOU team going there. It really doesn't make sense to think me and IcyTea31 are scum team. I wouldn't have opened up that he's my ally and I trust him if I were scum... I don't think the scum is even playing like this and are more likely to distance themselves or are  arguing with one another when the time is right.

That's why FOU Is in my scum list. His accusation that me and IcyTea31 are scum buddy makes no sense. And his investigation on the both of us felt stage. To help IcyTea31 look townie.
==================#===========================
4maskwolf  : He's playing a bit off just like IcyTea31. So I think they might be working together in some way. Probably what Dolores said about IcyTea31 testing out a new meta. I think 4maskwolf is doing the same and just because he got a reputation for being a good player it still gives no excuse to act the way he is. If he's not finding the scum this round he better show some enthusiasm finding the scum next round.

And my 4th...well, I don't really have a 4th one so far. I think it might be one of the many lurkers.