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Author Topic: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?  (Read 2461 times)

forumist

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I was carefully trying to station my squads near the fortress entrance while a weremose was chasing a poor civilian caught outside, and when the weremose got back two of my dwarves decided to charge it.

One of them apparently has no weapon and is trying to kill the weremose with his shield (while the weremose is dismembering the other one that had just one opportunity to slash with his bronze scimitar before loosing hold of it).

There's plenty of available weapon in my fortress (in particular, lots of good quality silver maces and war hammers).

The weapon in the equipment screen is set to "individual choice, weapon" (and I even set "Partial matches", if that can help).
Every equipment slot for every dwarf has a green square-root mark.

Why do some military dwarves still go to station without a weapon?

Did I miss some important settings somewhere? Something to do with schedules and alerts?

The foolish dwarf is "Adequate Hammerdwarf (Rusty)" and "Dabbling Speardwarf". Can it mean that he decided to switch weapon and trains only with spears? My only local production of spears is wooden training spears, because I have not found adequate ores to make weapons out of something else than silver or copper. The few metal spears I have were bought or taken from invaders, except one recently forged from bought steel.
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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2020, 04:50:31 am »

One of them apparently has no weapon and is trying to kill the weremose with his shield (while the weremose is dismembering the other one that had just one opportunity to slash with his bronze scimitar before loosing hold of it).

Funnily, the weremose is currently fighting using a gabbro ring stolen from its victim. Still able to bruise muscle and guts through iron chain leggings.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2020, 05:02:01 am »

Since they were suprised, they acted on the threat there and then.

Dwarves who don't carry their weapons 24/7 or have a civilian uniform (which seperately plainsclothes them & appropriate tool for mining or woodcutting) need to pick up their weapon when they are entering active service and ensure it actually belongs to them as the military screen can occasionally claim equipment that isn't rightfully yours, (still in the merchant depot or a visitors posession).

A long time ago barracks used to be able to store weapons & armor (in respective racks) for dwarves to collect but this functionality has been bugged for the longest time; though i have been hopeful that interacting with containers might be revisted some day, since Toady figured out how to get dwarves to store instruments and mugs in location-boxes/bags.


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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2020, 06:41:08 am »

Since they were suprised, they acted on the threat there and then.

What do you mean "surprised"?
When I ordered them to station, the weremoose was far away killing a civilian. I assume they saw it only after the weremoose set back towards the fortress.

They were surprised by the "station" order?

Dwarves who don't carry their weapons 24/7 or have a civilian uniform (which seperately plainsclothes them & appropriate tool for mining or woodcutting) need to pick up their weapon when they are entering active service

I think I have a bad understanding of this notion of "active service". Is it something that have to do with schedules and alerts?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2020, 10:40:31 am »

Firstly, if you don't have the militia in uniform when off duty they'll not wear it when called to duty, and it can take a month or so for them to collect all the parts (including the weapon), and they only collect stuff rather than go to a station when you don't want it...

Secondly, they replace weapons when better ones become available to them, which means they immediately drop the current one and pick up the new one later, when they feel like it (and the same goes for armor). Training weapons are probably worse than useless unless you have no weapons at all (with the exception of training bolts, as they're actually consumed).
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forumist

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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2020, 11:44:33 am »

Firstly, if you don't have the militia in uniform when off duty they'll not wear it when called to duty

In the "schedule" screen, I have "Inactive = Uniformed". Is this how I can prevent the militia from not being in uniform when off duty?


Secondly, they replace weapons when better ones become available to them, which means they immediately drop the current one and pick up the new one later, when they feel like it (and the same goes for armor). Training weapons are probably worse than useless unless you have no weapons at all (with the exception of training bolts, as they're actually consumed).

I'm trying to contain the weremoose epidemics by assigning training weapons to weremoose military dwarves, hoping they will be less likely to bite when they have a weapon, but they are too strong: One just hacked a dwarf with a training axe and exploded the hand into gore and opening an artery.

(And a weremoose child, just bit a few dwarves before being killed. This fort will not be easy to fix...)
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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2020, 04:31:05 pm »

To fix the were-moose problem, you will need to separate your infected citizens from the others with walls or death. Simplest solution is to assign each infected dwarf to a squad and use the 's'quad 'm'ove order to move them into a small room and then build a wall to seal it. When they transform, they will drop their armor and weapon and attack, so they cannot be allowed to stay with the uninfected.

"Inactive = Uniformed" is how you prevent them from taking off their armor and weapon, and it is the default, but you need to know about two situations that can happen. First is that if you just added the dwarf to a squad and gave them a 's'quad 'm'ove order, they will not look for their uniform until after they arrive at the destination. If there is an enemy there, they probably will get into the fight without their stuff. The second is that enabled woodcutter/miner/hunter labors will stop them from changing to their military uniform, so you should disable those labors on any that are in the military.

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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2020, 05:10:33 am »

To fix the were-moose problem, you will need to separate your infected citizens from the others with walls or death. Simplest solution is to assign each infected dwarf to a squad and use the 's'quad 'm'ove order to move them into a small room and then build a wall to seal it. When they transform, they will drop their armor and weapon and attack, so they cannot be allowed to stay with the uninfected.

Thanks for the tip. I think I finally managed to lock (if a forbidden door is sufficient for that) my current weremoose squad of two in a deep (and with seemingly no creatures except a few vermins) cavern.

It is more tricky with infected children, but the last ones I had were finally killed.

"you need to know about two situations that can happen. First is that if you just added the dwarf to a squad and gave them a 's'quad 'm'ove order, they will not look for their uniform until after they arrive at the destination. If there is an enemy there, they probably will get into the fight without their stuff. The second is that enabled woodcutter/miner/hunter labors will stop them from changing to their military uniform, so you should disable those labors on any that are in the military.

I was aware of some issue with miners and woodcutters, but not for hunters.

I assign my hunters to a squad that has training archery targets, but so far, they have not been very effective in combat. I've seen a few metal bolts fired in combat, though. Given that I reserve metal bolts for combat, and assign wood and bone bolts to hunters (or for training), it means that hunters are still somehow able to have both a civilian hunting activity, and some not completely bugged military activity. I've also seen some bolts in the channels surrounding my archery ranges.

In one of my first fort, about 10 years ago, I remember having a civilian miner save the situation killing one goblin after the other with head-destroying pick strikes. A pity they cannot be easily militarized.
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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2020, 09:01:06 am »

I've always set up my militaries to use "specific weapons/armor" + "Replace clothing" + "Inactive = Uniformed," and I've almost never had any problems with militia-dwarves going into battle half-equipped, or spending all their time gathering new equipment. Giving them specific gear is, admittedly, a bit of tedious micro up-front, but I think it pays in the long run.

The only time I've had trouble with it is after sending some squads out on missions - that seemed to mark some of their equipment as "available," which led me to assign it to another militia-dwarf even though the original wearer was still wearing it... in which case the fix was to remove everyone's equipment and re-assign. But missions are known to be more than a little bugged, anyway.
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HungThir

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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2020, 06:09:41 pm »

(if a forbidden door is sufficient for that)

The forbidden door will stop them from simply walking out while they're dwarves, but once they transform, if they have nothing better to distract them, they will try to destroy the door and eventually succeed.  You've got some time to breathe; use it to build some walls blocking off the door completely.
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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2020, 06:22:39 am »

I've always set up my militaries to use "specific weapons/armor" + "Replace clothing" + "Inactive = Uniformed," and I've almost never had any problems with militia-dwarves going into battle half-equipped, or spending all their time gathering new equipment.

Sorry for this late feedback: I've noticed that some of my dwarves where having unhappy thoughts due to being naked. I suspect this is due to them not managing well this "Replace clothing" setting.

What is this setting supposed to do, and why would it help avoiding mis-equipment?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2020, 07:39:44 am »

"Replace clothing" means no clothing that's not part of the uniform is worn, while "Over clothing" means that they're allowed to wear normal clothing as well. Note that normal clothing items can be specified as part of a uniform (it's fairly standard to add a cloak, for instance).

The reason "Replace clothing" helps is that DF still has trouble mixing civilian clothing with armor, even after several attempts to address it. There are essentially two issues:
- Item conflicts: "Shaped" items are incompatible with other "shaped" items in that item slot. (Civilian) Caps used to be shaped, and thus caused Helmets not to be worn, although it's been said the "shaped" token has been removed from caps (I haven't checked).
- Dwarven stupidity I: For some reason dwarves sometimes have trouble adding clothing belonging to some layers after other layers. Unless you're micromanaging dorfs to an extreme level you don't have any control over which order they try to add items in (in particular when it comes time to replace some items).
- Dwarven stupidity II: For some reason dwarves often can manage to add things properly to one hand/foot but not the other, resulting in e.g. a proper boot and sock on one foot, but only a sock on the other.

"Shaped" conflicts are intended, although "Over clothing" is intended to be compatible with that. Dwarven stupidity, on the other hand, is purely buggy, as far as I understand.
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Re: Squad station (or kill) order: How to ensure they take a weapon before?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2020, 11:01:35 am »

Caps used to be shaped, and thus caused Helmets not to be worn, although it's been said the "shaped" token has been removed from caps (I haven't checked).

It's still there.
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