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Author Topic: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k  (Read 23591 times)

Powder Miner

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #180 on: June 10, 2020, 04:32:52 pm »

I wouldn’t imagine such, personally... it’s not like the presence of an element in a substance makes that substance more “compatible” with other substances containing that element, after all. We may be drinking ethanol, sure, but we’re not exactly drinking propane.
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Ardent Debater

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #181 on: June 10, 2020, 04:37:29 pm »

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Hey since circuitry is largely made of silicon, would silicon-based life be more capable of using biomechanical augments and the like?
Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 04:41:52 pm by Ardent Debater »
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Glass

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #182 on: June 10, 2020, 05:00:06 pm »

The trade-off with silicon is that its structural composition offers strength and durability that would be difficult to match without significant adaptions from carbon, but makes it difficult to survive indefinitely on carbon-based biospheres, as the carbon is incompatible with the digestive system designed to interface with a silicon-base. There's nothing preventing a silicon species from making appendage-lengths onto an alien planet or even breathing the atmosphere, if the chemicals their respiratory systems require are present in reasonable amounts, but a silicon species can't settle a world with a carbon-based biosphere without first replacing it with their own silicon system or finding a workaround.

They are rocks, yes, but they are living, respirating organisms and would have as much difficulty colonizing a barren stone as a carbon species. The problem is that carbon will have already established a near-monopoly on habitable worlds in the same orbital range as the species' home-world by the time the species is likely to reach a spacefaring state, which requires an additional step to the [Planet_Name]forming process. Neither are inherently more or less difficult, their biospheres are just incompatible. If anything, a silicon species would have an easier time handling some extremes of temperature, and withstanding a carbon environment isn't made any harder by their much more durable forms, but sustaining their alien chemistry indefinitely is where the complications arise.
Ok, 1. you really don't need to put all of your OOC comments in spoilers, and 2. ...is just eating rocks and metals not an option? I'm pretty sure there's lithovores even on Earth.
Or at least, figuring out how to process rocks and the like into edible forms.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 05:07:48 pm by Glass »
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Madman198237

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #183 on: June 10, 2020, 05:30:53 pm »

Having completely incompatible chemistry would *mostly* be vulnerable to, say, reactions that proceed differently in the wrong kind of atmosphere. For example, something that lives in a freakishly lithium-rich environment might have *serious* problems entering an oxygen atmosphere when their body's own chemistry is turned against them.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #184 on: June 10, 2020, 05:31:07 pm »

A funny thing is that although the human body reacts badly to living transplants, it actually reacts fairly well to cybernetics made with proper materials. Look up the results of Kevin Warwick's Project Cyborg experiments for more, but the short of it is that the nervous system and the brain both reacted with "sure, I guess" when hooked up to an electrode array controlling a machine. The Mechanicus may not be so far-fetched as you'd think...

Not that this helps us, unless this species gets the same kind of cybernetic adaptability.
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wierd

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #185 on: June 10, 2020, 05:37:29 pm »

autochemotrophs are a thing.  They mostly live in the deep ocean in hot water vents that are filled with reduced sulfur compounds, but in an irradiated environment, a strong scouring UV source that breaks atomic bonds down (and thus produces energetic free radicals that can then be used for metabolic purposes) could enable a plethora of inorganic substances to be used as chemical energy sources.  It would mean that our biology would be very high-energy resistant, and thus would need pretty strongly chemically active materials to use as food. (Strong acids, highly reactive alkaline earth metals, corrosive gasses like chlorine, etc) that form very strong bonds, and have strong bond energies. (Otherwise the solar radiation would degrade our organism as well!)

I am thinking this:

Silicon based life that uses chlorine instead of oxygen. Perhaps with silicon tetrachloride + water reaction to produce silicon oxide and hydrochloric acid as waste product.  The water should be the result of internal chemistry from the decomposition of minerals, via UV radiation, in a process similar to photosynthesis. (in that a high energy radiation source is harnessed as an energy source to produce substances inside a lifeform. In this case, it is the harsh high energy particles and UV light from our star.) This would allow us to produce a silicondioxide exoskeleton, (or a complex of compound silicates to exploit chirality and crystal structures to create something both flexible and highly resistant to radiation, external sources of water, and mechanical attack)

This kind of metabolism would enable us to have a ready supply of "Highly deadly" waste we could employ against ordinary lifeforms. 

Since chlorine is so reactive, suggest we consume it in the form of rare-earth salts, and to have evolved to consume such salts in crystallized form, as well as adaptations (evolutionary) to consume strongly saline water (despite the toxicity of the water.)

Flavor description: Exoskeleton replete with microscopic ridges and structures between secreted silicate mineral crystal type boundaries, which capture and absorb high energy photons, and convert that energy directly into internal electrical potentials. (Photovoltaics, and the like.)  (see also, this article about how adding these to silicon based photo cells improves their performance.) This would make our appearance very "Prismatic", similar to the "Structural colors" found in blue insects, or on peacock feathers.

Basically-- We eat salt, and rocks.  We exhale/urinate concentrated hydrochloric acid solution as a metabolic biproduct.  We utilize the rare-earth minerals and silicon compounds in the surrounding regolith, along with the ever-present high energy radiation from our star to perform this chemistry.  Our internals are liquid solutions suspended in silicon chloride solution. Water is theoretically toxic to us, but our exoskeletons prevent exposure from outside sources being harmful to us, and our digestive systems produce water in trace amounts as a biproduct, necessitating their resistance to it.  We do not respire in the normally conventional way; We expel a vapor/mist as a waste product, but do not inhale.  We metabolize some of the water our primary energy consumption mechanism produces to create silicon rubbers, and other flexible materials for our internal body structures. Our exoskeletons are thick, and ornate in appearance, with a shimmering prismatic quality, due to their use as both environmental protection and as an energy harvesting organ.  Nanostructures in the exoskeleton force lower energy photons to be re-emitted as higher energy ones, (shorter wavelengths) by acting as naturally occuring nanoscopic waveguides. To humans, our appearance is black and iridescent.   Our optical systems are adapted to use higher frequencies of light than humans. We utilize light in the ultraviolet and Xray spectra. We appear translucent to other members of our species.

Downside:  We *NEED* the high energy environment to survive.  Being naked in space poses little trouble to us aside from temperature and internal pressure regulation; we do not breathe, and the harsh, unfiltered radiation of a star is our food. Requirement of chloride minerals limits our ability to move to naked planetoids. (Without an atmosphere to help recycle those compounds via reaction with a local regolith, we would quickly run out of metabolic material and starve to death, despite being surrounded by otherwise edible rocks. HCl is a gas, and would escape into space without a suitably strong gravity well, and atmosphere.) As such, we still need "Biospheres", and space suits.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 05:54:52 pm by wierd »
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Madman198237

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #186 on: June 10, 2020, 05:47:57 pm »

I like this entire proposal, and accuse you of being the nerdiest of nerds to have figured all that out :P
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Tyrant Leviathan

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #187 on: June 10, 2020, 05:55:28 pm »

2 fun notes:

1: The Xenonorphs from Alien are silicon.

2: Silicon super cooled is a super conductor, in a freeze ship we could be voluntary battery power while functioning ( Gamera vs Legion. There the turtle fought an alien insect horde, that were silicon based.)

Naturegirl1999

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #188 on: June 10, 2020, 05:58:22 pm »

Wierd, I like that you figured things out, I like your proposal too.
Tyrant Leviathan, your notes are interezting
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #189 on: June 10, 2020, 06:00:15 pm »

So wait a moment the fungus Orks, the Skynet kill all organic robotic Necrons, and the Flood-knock off Nids (I simply jest 8) ) are all immune to Chaos because they don’t have any emotions and whatnot; so would it be possible to create a Silicion species that can’t feel or display any emotion besides pure calculating logical thinking result in them having the possibility of being immune or gaining a high level of resistance level to being corrupted?, that just seems to make the Rocky-bois the better pick imo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9txkrz/because_chaos_can_corrupt_anything_with_emotion/
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 06:10:49 pm by Shadowclaw777 »
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Tyrant Leviathan

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #190 on: June 10, 2020, 06:08:04 pm »

So wait a moment the fungus Orks, the Skynet kill all organic robotic Necrons, and the Flood-knock off Nids are all immune to Chaos because they don’t have any emotions and whatnot; so would it be possible to create a Silicion species that can’t feel or display any emotion besides pure calculating logical thinking result in them having the possibility of being immune or gaining a high level of resistance level to being corrupted?, that just seems to make the Rocky-bois the better pick imo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9txkrz/because_chaos_can_corrupt_anything_with_emotion/

Hold that phone.

1: Necrons are Egyptian themed rip offs of Terminators yes.

2: The Nids have been fighting in 40k since the 80s. The Flood and Zerg are rip offs of them.

Edit: Thank you Nature Girl, you have good ideas as well. I myself try not to vote for my own designs after Wands Race. : getting ptsd flashbacks.:

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #191 on: June 10, 2020, 06:12:39 pm »

No, that's not how Chaos works. The Orks are largely resistant because they have a strong communal psyker field which protects them, but also leaves them without free will. The Tyranids are resistant because they too don't have free will, only one emotion which is hunger, and they're immensely alien to the human-dominated warp so it isn't compatible with them. They just drown out Chaos with the hungry noise. The Necrons are immune as far as anyone knows, but don't get too complacent - AI are demonstrably not immune to Chaos and may even be more vulnerable. The Men of Iron were corrupted in this way. Also, the Necrons are almost all automatons or insane.

Chaos "feeds off emotions" because of the horror of the War in Heaven and humanity's inheritance of that legacy, but ultimately Chaos can come in myriad forms and adaptations. Powerful manifestations of the warp can corrupt pretty much anything to the extent that the term "Daemon World" is literal. The planet is a daemon.

There is no conclusive theory of the Warp because it doesn't follow physics and thus is allowed to contradict itself or exist in multiple ways at the same time, but I prefer the one laid out in the fic The Culture Explores Warhammer 40k (warning, it's dead and unfinished if you want to read it, though a good read still). This treats the Warp as a system of varying and overlapping "patterns" which dictate the Warp's side of reality or lack thereof. Chaos in this model is like a prion disease, folding other patterns into it and to be like itself, trapping the Immaterium into knots of agony. This is why people corrupted by Chaos cannot be fixed no matter how much they want to rebel - the pattern of their soul has been fucked up by Chaos and turned towards it. At best, they can resist or destroy themselves before the pattern can correct them. This is also why the moment of "true corruption" is so inconsistent and why the Armor of Contempt works, when the Chaos prion goes beyond re-patterning your body with mutation to affect your consciousness instead and denying Chaos prions any mental wifi connection respectively.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #192 on: June 10, 2020, 06:13:51 pm »

Silicon entities might still produce chemicals analogous to hormones, thus giving the ability to feel emotions. (Hormones govern our emotions. To me, it wouldn't be farfetched for silicon based species to have similar processes)
On the note of emotions, why do animals on Terra have them? I'm a human and don't really know why we have them in the first place. Like, I know other animals have them too, My question is why emotions evolved in animals on Terra in the first place, and why they stayed.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #193 on: June 10, 2020, 06:21:02 pm »

The evolutionary purpose of emotions is for advanced behavioral modeling in similarly-advanced forms of life. For unicellular life, fungi, plants, and such, proteins and hormones do well enough to ensure the machinery of life works. But ambulatory animal life needs better guidance on a more complex level to survive the genetic arms race, and so pressure towards developing emotions begins.

All emotions are useful for the species who have them, albeit inconvenient at times. Happiness encourages productive behaviors, disgust and fear avoid dangerous situations, anger helps survive conflict and confront problems, and sadness regulates so the other emotions don't get you going on suicide missions.
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To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Glass

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Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
« Reply #194 on: June 10, 2020, 06:24:06 pm »

Emotions are a good way to quickly get you to respond to something without needing you to consciously process it, or to make sure that you're prepared in case something happens - if you had to consciously register that there was something lurking around the edge of your vision and it may be hostile, it would be much more difficult to respond in time to the trouble it may pose. I can't say as well why we may have evolved happiness and the like, but, well, if all you felt was negative, "there's a threat" emotions all the time, would you want to live? They may have literally been a counter-evolution to prevent suicide or something.
I don't know, I'm more of a computer scientist and economist, this stuff isn't anywhere close to my area of expertise.

EDIT: And ninja'd. :p
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.
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