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[Powder Miner]

Well, this is rather more next-level than I expected from the thread title — looks very very cool.

I’ll probably end up throwing in for someone else’s plan, since I find it a little unlikely I’ll gain too much traction, but I find the concept of a people huddled from cavern network to cavern network, isolated away from each other by radiation slamming down through a shallow sea, wondering what exists outside of their little points of life, unaware of just how many things truly do... well, I find it quite poetic indeed. (Also, this works quite well for an empire that focuses quite hard on building up technology, which I try to encourage along with really building up and relying on the cavern networks.. Hell... maybe we come up with a method of FTL that doesn’t rely on the Warp quite like Terran ships do.)

Advantages:

Isolated Star System
Thick Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks
Mineral Abundance

Disadvantages:

Frequent Meteorites
Ideal Atmosphere
Lack of Warp Routes

Star System:
Barren Planet (close to sun)
2 Rocky Planets (neighbor planets to ours, in terms of orbital distance)
Gas Giant (a gargantuan body, far away, looming)

[King Zultan]

Code: [Select]

Mineral Abundance
Cavern Networks + Frequent Meteorites
Exotic Resources + Exotic Phenomena
Thin Atmosphere +  Crowded Star Region

System:
Livable Planet (Slightly further from the star)
2x Barren Planets (In the hot zone of the star, they're a pair much like Pluto-Charon)


+1

[andrea]

I tried making a votebox, with links to the proposals due to their complexity.
Of all the proposal, I like powder miner's most. Shields us from warp, provides mineral, safety from other species before we are ready to venture outside and forces us into warp independent technology.

Nirur's plan is maybe my next favourite, but I am wary of exotic resources + crowded local system. if someone else gets space faring before us, we may find ourselves a slave caste in exotic mines.

One thing about powder's plan I would change: Swap ideal atmosphere for electromagnetic storms: it follows the concepts of people living in cave networks, with a very hostile surface. Our civilization would be shielded from those events by the caves, but only hardened or non-electrical machinery can travel the surface safely. Regardless of whether this change proposal is accepted, my vote stands.

Powder miner plan (2): Powder miner, Andrea
Nirur Torir plan (2): Nirur Torir, King Zultan
Glass plan (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (1): KJ proton
MetalSLimeHunt plan (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (1): Naturegirl

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
One (7) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass, BL
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, Nirur
A single moon of a mass approaching Terra itself, strong in solitude and stalwart against the encroaching dark orbits the world below. In the eons to come, it will be companion to the thinking creatures capable of perceiving its presence, and if not seen, its gentle influence on the oceanic tide will be felt. Its singular grandeur is likely to influence the lively patterns of what comes into existence below, as all things above do.

The material state of the world has been determined as has its location in the grander scheme, but what of the specifics of the star system surrounding it? Consider carefully, once a tenet of future truth been set in stone, only titanic effort can see it moved.

Advantages: Choose One, each beyond the first requires a Disadvantage.

Isolated Star Region: The system's future life-forms may not know it, but they are fortunate indeed. Nestled in a lifeless expanse extending several hundred light-years in every direction, they are guaranteed to be left to themselves much longer.

Mineral Abundance: The jagged crust of the home-world lives up to expectations, with a ludicrous mineral bounty any expansionist faction would fight a fierce campaign for. Even alone, this would be enough to bootstrap a higher technological base, to say nothing of supplementing other sources.


Exotic Resources: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its mineral wealth or lack thereof, but the overwhelming prevalence of valuable ores seldom found in great numbers elsewhere. This could be a great asset to a spacefaring civilization, if it was wary and did not allow it to become a crutch.

Thin Atmosphere: Whatever chemical the species evolving here require to breathe, the home-world has precious little of it, forcing the evolution of efficient respiratory systems capable of filtering and extracting every bit of benefit possible from what little they can inhale. To a species that developed here, denser atmospheres would seem rich, and their endurance unreal.

Cavern Networks: The home-world's crust is riddled with an intricate system of tunnels and caverns far surpassing those on Terra, effectively adding a second layer to the ecosystem and limited assurance from surface-scouring extinction events.

Geothermal Activity: There are a number of dormant volcanoes easily accessible to the home-world's surface, a potentially abundant and reliable source of energy to a society that has the intellect to discover and make use of it.

Acidic Oceans: The waters of the home-world are, by random chance, of a consistency that would be caustic and corrosive to most organic life of the galaxy, including what grew here until it developed a resistance, not only toward the roiling seas, but a wide range of related compounds found across the galaxy.

Disadvantages: Choose as many as necessary, or more, should hunger outweigh reason.

Crowded Star Region: The system's future life-forms may not know it, but they are unfortunate indeed. Choked by a rare oasis of life in the void, they are guaranteed to encounter at least one other xenos species, possibly as many as a handful in the hundred light-year expanse surrounding the system.


Lack of Warp Routes: The system is in an unfortunate position for a spacefaring species, as while Immaterial travel is possible, for a planet in the middle of a now-calm but eventually turbulent spot, it is rarely safe or convenient.


Exotic Phenomena: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its Warp Routes or lack thereof, but the presence of faint 'ripples' nearby that seem to ebb and flow with the passage of time, trending ever-so-slightly toward further rapidity each millennia...

Frequent Meteorites: The system is unusual, in that comets are a sight of quite some regularity to the world(s) within, but while they can be considered beautiful to those that have a sense of sight or esoteric means of perception, this is outweighed by the massive risk they pose of impacting the home-world and causing an extinction event.

Ideal Atmosphere: Whatever the species evolving here require to breathe, the home-world has an overflowing abundance of it, allowing the continuation of primitive, crude respiratory systems long after their expected obsolescence would see them replaced. To a species that evolved here, thinner atmospheres would seem suffocating.



Electromagnetic Storms: An unusual combination of unstable magnetic poles and an erratic star, electromagnetic pulses wipe the surface with some regularity, frustrating the development of higher technology without the advent of sufficient precautions and then some.




Home-System Satellites: Twelve Points may be spent in this section, at one's discretion

Barren Planet: A sandy and desolate clump, its unsightly bulk collects some meteorites and could perhaps be strip-mined for a pittance, but isn't worth much else. (1 Point)
Rocky Planet A modest and battered chunk, it's in the same gravity well as the home-world and while not rich, boasts an amount of mineral wealth worth the effort to get. (3 Points)
Ringed Gas Giant As before, but with a ring of mineral richness rivaling, if not surpassing the providence of smaller planets. (8 Points)

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: Jagged
Home-World's Number of Moons: One
The Traits of the Home-System: To be determined

Went for something different with the other bodies, my trolling is having neighbors in a gas giant situation we could manifest destiny on.

As for home world my goal was super amphibians hence we survive super acid ( and meteors due to ringed gas giant.)

My second ideal was 1 barren, 1 mineral, one water.

Third was one habitable and 2 barren. Really cannot make up my mind so tried to be different.

[Powder Miner]

I considered electromagnetic storms, but it would make going high-tech fairly difficult, which... well, that would be quite a severe problem for a civilization in an ultra-harsh environment with nearly no Warp access, lmao. Plus I did want to pander to Madman a little with a good base for going high-tech, hehehe

[andrea]

Yes, but the storms are only a problem on the surface. Underground, we can develop technology until ready to venture out.

Might be a problem for satellites and stuff however

[Kashyyk]

Powder miner plan (3): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk
Nirur Torir plan (2): Nirur Torir, King Zultan
Glass plan (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (1): KJ proton
MetalSlimeHunt plan (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (1): Naturegirl

[Nirur Torir]

My plan analyses. We have 0 plans that breath oxygen, so I'll made one. Our soldiers will be even better.

Lonely plans:

Glass's plan gets us 2 disasters and 2 boosts to civ stage. We're then isolated and cut off from warp travel, giving us plenty of time to build up with abundant minerals and tech. 0 post-space disasters.
It's a safe plan if we get into space, leaving us to only worry about eventual bigger picture threats.

Kilojoule's plan gets us 0 disasters and 0 boosts to civ stage, with poor minerals and warp protection. We're then isolated and cut off from warp travel, but have a good home system. 0 post-space disasters.
It's a safe plan, but I'm wary of both mineral poor with our high gravity, and isolated + warp penalty + dense immaterium veil leaves us trying to figure that out for ourselves in isolated colonies, even if we're well protected against Chaos cultists in our rich home system. Dense immaterium leaves us unlikely to have psykers of our own, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does leave us with fewer options.

MSH's plan gets us 2 disasters and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 1 boost to evolution. We're then isolated for space, and rich in both common and exotic minerals. We'll have 2 post-space disasters, in the form of profane shrine and exotic phenomena.
The idea seems similar to mine, but with more picks and being isolated instead of crowded.

Naturegirl's plan gets us 2 disasters and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 2 boosts to evolution. We're then isolated for space, and rich in both common and exotic minerals. We have 2 post-space disasters.
Exotic atmosphere likely makes our soldiers less effective offensively, but nobody will want to try to fight a land war on our planets. I think thin immaterial veil gives us stronger psykers, so if we can deal with the risks, we get even stronger armies.
Thin immaterial veil + profane shrine is a Chaos threat disynergy.
I'd like to make special note that cavern network + unstable tectonics + meteorites has a disynergy, as we can't effectively bury critical infrastructure to protect against extinction events.
If we can survive everything, we have the potential to come out with intensely strong soldiers, especially defensively.

Miner's plan gets us 1 disaster and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 0 boosts to evolution. We're then isolated and cut off from warp travel, giving us plenty of time to build up with abundant minerals. 0 post-space disasters.
Ideal atmosphere, thick immaterial veil, and no evolution boosts will limit soldier effectiveness.
Another safe plan, with the single disaster being limited by caves. We're then alone with an average system and will have a difficult time with FTL.


Tyrant's plan gets us 2 disasters and 3 boosts to civ stage, with 2 boosts to evolution. We're then cut off from warp travel, and have Schrodinger's neighbors, who might or might not exist. We have rich common and exotic minerals. We have 1 post-space disaster.
We have defensively very strong soldiers, and lots of minerals to build up with before we figure out how to get out of the system.

Plans with friends we can fight:

My plan gets us 1 disaster and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 1 boost to evolution. We have to deal with other races in space, one of whom will probably have a presence mining our exotic resources by the time we get to space, possibly with a colony on our other planet. We have mysterious 1 post-space disaster to worry about.
I want to have to deal with other minor civilizations. It's fun, and lets us play soldier with our hopefully very strong people.
The threat of having to clear out our home system somehow is potentially as difficult as overcoming any other disaster, but we might make some foreign friends out of it. And it should be fun.

Mightmushroom's plan gets us 1 disaster and 1 boost to civ stage, with 1 potential boost to evolution in the form of sporadic orbit. We have a rich home system, once we reach space, with a nebula nearby instead of exotics. 0 post-space disasters.
The thin immaterial veil and lack of colony worlds means we're more likely to reach space before anyone else has a significant mining presence.
The plan is safer than mine, but more focused on exotic gasses than minerals. I don't think sporadic orbit is an extinction level event, especially with abundant geothermal power, but it will probably take longer to reach space, giving our neighbors more time to develop. We should have a relatively easy time claiming and defending our home system, and we should end up with better psykers.
Unlike mine, our home system can be trusted not to self-destruct.


Plan Soldiers

Thin Atmosphere
Oxygenic Atmosphere + Empty Home-System
Warp Route Nexus + Thin Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks + Sporadic Orbit
Rich Moon + Superpredators

I've crammed every most evolution boosts in, including the dangers of more psykers, and the only natural (or warp) disaster is sporadic orbit. Which might make us stronger.
We have a warp nexus to get to our neighbors and look for richer systems, and only sporadic orbit slowing our growth. The empty home system means that nobody other than us can hold our system for long without allying us, once we develop surface-to-orbit weapons.

Powder miner plan (3): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk
Nirur Torir plan 1(1): King Zultan
Glass plan (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (1): KJ proton
MetalSlimeHunt plan (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (1): Naturegirl
Nirur Plan 2: Superior Soldiers (1): Nirur

I don't like Powder Miner's plan. It's safe, but might get a little boring later on.

[Madman198237]

Plus I did want to pander to Madman a little with a good base for going high-tech, hehehe

Now, see, if everybody just did what I wanted to do and left none of the work of doing it to me the world would be a great place


And, Ardent, don't worry so much about the breathing "problem" or the amount of detail going into it. Most people don't care and it doesn't disrupt their suspension-of-disbelief (and it doesn't really harm mine, either [we're already in 40k so disbelief has run away screaming some time ago]). I just happen to enjoy telling people interesting science-y things that I know.

[andrea]

Hm. boring later on is a fair point, maybe we don't need to be fully isolated. I would still rather not be crowded however.

[IncompetentFortressMaker]

Well, here goes! Don't be surprised if I screw absolutely everything over with this plan. I have played literally zero games of any sort wherein you develop a civilization and then have it go out into the unknown regions of the cosmos.

Advantages:
Isolated Star Region
Packed Home-System
Geothermal Activity
Mineral Abundance

Disadvantages:
Exotic Phenomena (I don't even know what this is, really, or what it will do...)
Lack of Warp Routes
Sporadic Orbit

Other Home-System Planets (20 points to spend thanks to Packed Home-System):
Liveable Planet + Rocky Planet + Barren Planet + Barren Planet + Gas Giant
Orbit distances: Liveable Planet maybe 20% farther out than home planet (but still close enough to the home star to count as livable), Rocky Planet somewhat close to home star, 1st Barren Planet extremely close to home star (similarly to Mercury in the Sol system), 2nd Barren Planet far enough out to be an ice world, gas giant far enough out to be an ice giant (similarly to Neptune in the Sol system).

[mightymushroom]

Mightmushroom's plan [. . .] The plan is safer than mine, but more focused on exotic gasses than minerals.

Less by intention as by wanting to make an interesting system that semi-justifies sporadic orbit. Minerals are good.

Meta: insofar as the oxygen vs. exotic choices appear to relate to mechanics of terraforming/expansion costs, then not choosing a position means something in the middle. Maybe our life relies on some (undefined?) rare compound alongside oxygen such that we can make things work by adding one ingredient instead of replacing the foundations of an alien biome.

There seems to be a strong faction against meddling with the Warp. If I'm projecting the intent correctly we'll have to deal with it sometime regardless; when we reach interstellar contact if not sooner. I'm not averse to getting in some early practice.

I'd also prefer a more interesting home system as an impetus for exploration and expansion, otherwise Nirur II: the Evolutioning looks fine to me. So I'd probably be swapping out Empty Home System for Frequent Meteorites (trusting in the caverns to reduce a portion of that danger).

I'm curious what people would think of having a Water World, it obviously was passed over in the first round of suggestions but the cost suggests it's a better resource than a straight-up mineral planet. 12 points = Water + Rocky + Rocky for instance.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Remember: Humanity grew up in an era of warp-calmness as well, even in spite of having some sensitivity. The outcome was Old Night.

There may be some benefit to non-oxygen or exotic atmosphere existence - we wouldn't be directly competing with oxygen-breathers for planets and certain groups of oxygenated genocidal xenophobes would find invading our worlds difficult, as well as making extended occupation nearly impossible. Granted, most such people would just bomb the world from orbit until nothing remains, but it's an edge.

[Ardent Debater]

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

This is an extremely important and seems to be a point of some contention, so I'll wait until tomorrow before we go ahead with the majority's choice. If 80% of the thread suddenly pivots in support of a single suggestion, we'll of course go ahead, but don't feel the need to rush. What you decide on here will have long-lasting and wide-reaching implications.

Well, this is rather more next-level than I expected from the thread title — looks very very cool.

I’ll probably end up throwing in for someone else’s plan, since I find it a little unlikely I’ll gain too much traction, but I find the concept of a people huddled from cavern network to cavern network, isolated away from each other by radiation slamming down through a shallow sea, wondering what exists outside of their little points of life, unaware of just how many things truly do... well, I find it quite poetic indeed. (Also, this works quite well for an empire that focuses quite hard on building up technology, which I try to encourage along with really building up and relying on the cavern networks.. Hell... maybe we come up with a method of FTL that doesn’t rely on the Warp quite like Terran ships do.)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'm happy to hear that you were pleasantly surprised by the thread, and watching the long-term logic and different priorities that's going into you all coming to your own decisions and the discussion that's going on about it is interesting. I'm eager to see what it is everyone eventually settles on, there's a massive amount of potential with each build that's been posted so far. That's a striking mental image too, rife with symbolism, not to mention that the underdog aspect inherent to not being human in the same galaxy that the Imperium of Man will eventually dominate or might not, depending on how rapid and extreme your expansion and technological advance is. Seeing what philosophy emerges from the species' evolution and its environment, and how it's changed or strengthened by the adversity they might come against is going to be extremely interesting too.

As for home world my goal was super amphibians hence we survive super acid ( and meteors due to ringed gas giant.)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

A valid evolutionary course, I'm eager to see whether you all fall back on Terran examples of species overcoming similar difficulties during the evolutionary stage or diverge into something stranger that we don't have an example for.

I've crammed every evolution boost in, including the dangers of more psykers, and the only natural (or warp) disaster is sporadic orbit. Which might make us stronger.
We have a warp nexus to get to our neighbors and look for richer systems, and only sporadic orbit slowing our growth. The empty home system means that nobody other than us can hold our system for long without allying us, once we develop surface-to-orbit weapons.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That's an extremely solid appraisal of everyone's plans, and as for the evolutionary boosts, while the species would suffer horribly for it they'd be stronger in the long run. Having other species could be beneficial or detrimental, depending, they'd crawl into sapience around the same time as you do, but there's no guarantee they'll follow the same path on the tech-tree. I plan on randomly generating other minor xenos, to an extent, I already have a few crude tables to roll on to determine the broad specifics of a given species. You can and will eventually run into canonical species if you start expanding into the broader galaxy, and most of them aren't amicable. Then again, maybe you won't be either. All the same, there's nothing preventing you from developing a nonviolent ethos, ambulating softly, and carrying a big stick. It all depends.

And, Ardent, don't worry so much about the breathing "problem" or the amount of detail going into it. Most people don't care and it doesn't disrupt their suspension-of-disbelief (and it doesn't really harm mine, either [we're already in 40k so disbelief has run away screaming some time ago]). I just happen to enjoy telling people interesting science-y things that I know.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

No worries here and I don't intend to start, I just want the pseudo-science here I'm spewing to be on-point. I hope you continue during the evolutionary phase, much of that I'm already familiar with, but I'm deeply interested in seeing the disparate perspectives everyone is bringing into the thread.

Hm. boring later on is a fair point, maybe we don't need to be fully isolated. I would still rather not be crowded however.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Keep in mind, the less external pressure there is, the more space there is for internal schisms or even conflict. Of course, that's assuming that the species has a concept of aggression or disagreement toward themselves, there are countless feasible evolutionary paths that could result in that kind of societal cohesion, and it'd be fascinating to see how that reacts to the intense xenophobia that's almost, if not already the assumed default in the broader galaxy. If you don't choose Isolated Star Region, you can rest assured that none of the immediate neighboring systems have other sapients, but running into an intelligent species at some point is inevitable, and more likely to be too close for comfort than not, though as always, there's an element of chance and you could get lucky.

Well, here goes! Don't be surprised if I screw absolutely everything over with this plan. I have played literally zero games of any sort wherein you develop a civilization and then have it go out into the unknown regions of the cosmos.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Again, not any kind of requirement, and while it can be avoided with sufficient forethought, having everything go wrong in the worst way possible is par for the course for Warhammer 40k.

There seems to be a strong faction against meddling with the Warp. If I'm projecting the intent correctly we'll have to deal with it sometime regardless; when we reach interstellar contact if not sooner. I'm not averse to getting in some early practice.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There's an extremely strong argument to be made for either, the Osirian Psybirds and Khrave did fairly well for themselves relying on innate psychic prowess, but then again, so did the Tau by eschewing it entirely. No planet choice is worthless, and each is assured to recoup at least its value in points.

Remember: Humanity grew up in an era of warp-calmness as well, even in spite of having some sensitivity. The outcome was Old Night.

There may be some benefit to non-oxygen or exotic atmosphere existence - we wouldn't be directly competing with oxygen-breathers for planets and certain groups of oxygenated genocidal xenophobes would find invading our worlds difficult, as well as making extended occupation nearly impossible. Granted, most such people would just bomb the world from orbit until nothing remains, but it's an edge.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Very true, plenty of Disadvantages could be made beneficial with some creativity.

[Shadowclaw777]

Powder miner plan (3): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk
Nirur Torir plan 1(1): King Zultan
Glass plan (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (2): KJ proton, SC777
MetalSlimeHunt plan (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (1): Naturegirl
Nirur Plan 2: Superior Soldiers (1): Nirur

I prefer having a system that has 2 Habitable planets, I'd probably replace the Immaterial for Oxygen, but oh well.