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Absolutely

I dont know

No, its good as it is

[Lioneez]

Well, I was scrolling in the development tab on the DF website and I seen that finally there is a talk about adding magic to the game.
But there is one thing that worries me, and its that magic casters will ruin the game as much as "throwing" was busted back in the day.
Basically I personally think that harsh restrictions or a big learning curve should be add to projectile based weapons so it wont be a walk in the park to jump throw stones to kill a dragon as a kobold midget.
I would have suggested magic to be triggered from the conversation tab as in you would need to chant a string of runes that will cast a spell but that wont work as there is already a magic tab in the game with "animate undead".
Maybe magic should be acquired from books or wooden staffs so that elfs wont be such a joke to mess with, as far as how to learn it from books well first I would suggest that a character will need to have high reading and writing skills as he would write a lot of books to try and master a spell before he can use it and after it to add an "arcane" skill that is only useful to make the magic deadlier than using arrows or throwing.
I mean, I worry that magic will be busted even if it will be a long wait until it is but im sure Toady one will do it
What do you think? its a great addition as well as a scary suggestion given everything, maybe Toady will be able to balance the system with some suggestions or at least we might humor him.

[Atarlost]

I'd be more worried that magic will be useless.  Most traditional magic lacks practical utility because the folkloric narratives usually place an everyman as their hero (often an aristocratic everyman, but still subject to human limits).  And real magical systems are limited to engaging with things can't be proven to exist because magic manifestly doesn't work in reality. 

Magic, being not real, is a prime opportunity to make some decisions based not on story archetypes but on gameplay.  And a gamey consistently functional wizard has a place both in adventure mode and (if he can be enrolled in a military squad) in fortress mode, while a magical magic wizard is completely useless in adventure mode and possibly of dubious value in fortress mode. 

I definitely don't want to see gatekeeping on magic.  Having to find a library with the secrets of magic would be annoying makework.  Even if you started at a site with such a library many sites are hell to navigate. 

[DerMeister]

Why you think so primitive? All spells, rune strings, staffs and magic projectiles is crap, etalone of terrible suggestion. There will be no foolish wand-waving or silly incantations. Dwarf Fortress has magic. This is elves, who grow all fruits on one tree and form twigs into wooden weapons, armor and tools. This is demons, who bind themselves to world by slabs. This is night trolls, who steal people for breeding. This is raining blood, slime and grime. This is ghosts and moving corpses. If more magic will be added, it must be magic from tales, myphs and Koraktor, not from DnD and RPG! Sinister magic, like hand of glory, like Fijian human teeth necklace, like Nábrók.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Toady: I'm going to make a fantasy world generator that can produce an infinite variety of fantasy worlds. It'll be like an entire library of cheap fantasy novels in which YOU are the hero.

Fan: But obviously you'll exclude magic, right?

Toady: ...


Seriously though, please read about Mythgen. This is not "add a quick D&D style magic system to my game". It's a complete rewrite of world generation which will procedurally generate a unique world lore each time. Systems working together to produce rules for how "magic" works in that particular world.
Yes, in one world in a thousand you might get to play a magic user with the ability to throw an op fireball with little consequences to themselves. But for the most part you'll end up with "Kobolds have the ability to turn into buckets once a month at the cost of half their blood".

And sliders to reduce the amount of "fantasy" in your game (and horror, and perhaps others too).

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Not to mention that simple D&D-style magic can, for the most part, be implemented with modding right now, so if that were all mythgen was about then there would be little to no reason for Toady to set aside so much time and effort on developing what anyone can add to the game in an afternoon.

[DerMeister]

Not to mention that simple D&D-style magic can, for the most part, be implemented with modding right now, so if that were all mythgen was about then there would be little to no reason for Toady to set aside so much time and effort on developing what anyone can add to the game in an afternoon.

So why Toady not add this? Because he understand - this is crap. But modmakers not understand.

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Um...no, he doesn't add it for the reason I just mentioned. Modders can add whatever they want, which is something that Toady totally supports, but of course this isn't the first time you've been told this so I'm not sure why I'm bringing it up again.

If you're going to be part of an online community you can't keep insulting and talking down to everyone who does things differently than you. Trying to police the content of mods that you can just not download if you don't like them is especially absurd.

[sampeng1]

I dont know anything about the "new" Magic system they plan to add to armok 2 but if its anything like the first game. When you cast a spell at low level, it will either fail constantly, or at least have little effect (this applies to healing magic as well). I remember one spell in particular where you summon a swarm of magic teeth that bite at the enemy.

[Lioneez]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Um...no, he doesn't add it for the reason I just mentioned. Modders can add whatever they want, which is something that Toady totally supports, but of course this isn't the first time you've been told this so I'm not sure why I'm bringing it up again.

If you're going to be part of an online community you can't keep insulting and talking down to everyone who does things differently than you. Trying to police the content of mods that you can just not download if you don't like them is especially absurd.

Well I was not trying to insult or police anything, if you read my post the main idea behind it and I will quote it again:

What do you think? its a great addition as well as a scary suggestion given everything, maybe Toady will be able to balance the system with some suggestions or at least we might humor him.

I honestly dont know why you would take my post out of context.
and as far as why I made the post is honestly because I love the Idea of roaming wizards but I have no Idea what that exactly would mean as most of you realized from me imagining a simple magic system that can be found in a lot of mods, lets just say im curious what the community has to say as the devs future goals dont really explain what the notes mean exactly.

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Oh, my apologies Lioneez. That was directed to DerMeister, not you at all. Probably should've made that clearer.

[Shonai_Dweller]

The Dev notes don't go into a lot of detail about how the system works, but there are many interviews and Future of the Fortress Q&As in which Toady explains in more detail (including a whole prototype demo video).

You could ask the community how they think it will work, of course (not in the suggestions forum though). But since the community only know what they've read of what Toady has said, you're better off just asking Toady directly. Then, based on that, make Suggestions on how he could do it better (or how he can do the parts he hasn't worked out yet).

[GoblinCookie]

Not to mention that simple D&D-style magic can, for the most part, be implemented with modding right now, so if that were all mythgen was about then there would be little to no reason for Toady to set aside so much time and effort on developing what anyone can add to the game in an afternoon.

Only with the use of DwarfHack. 

There is indeed a lot of worry about the implementation of magic.  The problem is the same as the existence of fire, at the moment fire exists but is totally devastating because nobody knows how to deal with it yet.  Magic existing requires an AI capable of handling it, but given previous AI patchiness there is a good change the AI will not be able to deal with the complexity of having a full magic system.

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Oh there are genuine concerns to be sure and people aren't necessarily wrong to be worried, I just noticed that there seemed to be a few fundamental misconceptions here on what the myth & magic system will even entail.

[GoblinCookie]

Oh there are genuine concerns to be sure and people aren't necessarily wrong to be worried, I just noticed that there seemed to be a few fundamental misconceptions here on what the myth & magic system will even entail.

It seems likely to entail taking the basic D&D style computer game spells and randomizing them by world.  The game unfortunately cannot procedurally create ex-nihilo, however much we might wish this were otherwise. 

[Atarlost]

The "basic D&D style spells" exist for a reason, though they're better termed "Dying Earth style spells."  They work in the context of both stories and games.  They allow the reader or player to understand magic's capabilities so there can be narrative tension without constructing an entire hard magic scheme and they provide capabilities useful to adventurers, villains, and wizards in conflict with other wizards.  As constructing a hard magic scheme procedurally is nigh-impossible, they're really the only way to go other than no magic.

Folkloric is wholly unsuited to fantasy world building because it tries to hide magic in the shadows of a world that objectively has no magic.  Toady One could do far worse than to imitate the late great Gary Gygax in copying from the late greater Jack Vance.