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[TricMagic]

It's better than our funding just disappearing. I do not like corruption. I do like being advanced enough that we can make computing systems for our guys.

[Wozzy]

+1 Rapid Economic Growth
+1 Advanced/Efficient Shipbuilding Industry
-1 Minor Corruption
-1 Smaller Shipyard

While we miss out on a bonus turn, I feel faster building will more than make up for it.

(5) Last plan, I Swear! : Kashyyk, Jilladilla, Failbird, SC777, AseaHeru
(1) Rapid Progression (Wozzy)
(1) Privateers Who Are Nobody's Friends: MoP
(0) Last Minute Plan for Global Domination, to unite all under our Nation:
(1) Ahead of you, ahead of Ourselves: TricMagic

[TricMagic]

I still do not want corruption.

[Man of Paper]

>Advanced enough to make computing systems
>1890s

Pick one, Tric. Oh wait, we're already in the 1890's. We're far from anything computing. Unless you count mechanical calculating devices, in which we're still 12 years from the appearance of anything resembling a fire control. Losing a PP here or there is probably the least impactful downside overall, next to reduced dock size, and both can be fairly easily dealt with - dependent on rolls of course.

Poor Education tells me we're going to get outsmarted and outplayed, and I don't like that. Doesn't matter how advanced our things are if our dudes are stupid.

[TricMagic]

> Has better tech,
>> Have enough people to use that tech.
>>> ?
>>>> Profit.

Cavemen with sticks vs People with Guns.

People with Guns vs People with Far Better guns.

Point and shoot isn't that complicated. Beyond that, poor education can be remedied through training. Corruption meanwhile, is not a good thing. Ways to root it out would be needed, and we can never actually be sure we got it all.

Poor Education simply means most of our people are not going to make complicated plans. And if our gear is naturally better, that gives us a Force Advantage. Sure, our opponents can use tactics to offset this, but it's never going to be quite enough. We can just make better stuff to compensate. Oh, and also spend a design on Training our Forces. We can do that. Better Armor, Better Weapons, Better Ship Design. We'll simply be better when it comes to gear on the battlefield.

[Man of Paper]

Oh you're totally right. Except you're not. It'd be like putting a soccer mom behind the wheel in a formula 1 race, she's gonna slam head-first into that wall on the first turn - if she doesn't sideswipe the driver next to her first. It doesn't matter if you have 3000 people to run a nuclear reactor if none of them have the proper education. I highly, highly doubt the GM's going to let us straight-up negate our negative perks with one or two designs. I'd rather not trust our absolute baseline for combat capability to fix via designs.

Your analogies are also ass-backwards. We'd be Cavemen with Guns vs People with Sticks, and the caveman with the gun is likely to shoot himself in the foot. I also don't know how much of a difference in tech level you expect we'll get from our perks, but I guarantee we're not going to be ages ahead of our opponents regardless of both team's choices.

Point and shoot is complicated, because it's not just point and shoot. The problem here is you don't understand the complexities involved. We're in an era where we're going to see shell flight times of up to 30 seconds. There's a ridiculous amount of things to factor in. Have you ever fired an arrow at a target 200 yards away? How about one that's moving? And also shooting back? While the ground pushes up and down beneath you both? I'm totally sure someone with what is considered a Poor Education for the 1890s will totally have an easy time. And that's just firing the guns!

And saying tactics is never going to be quite enough is, well, it's literally the dumbest thing I think I've heard anyone state in my entire 28-year life.

[Vostok]

Having ships crewed by literal glue-sniffers would not be ideal, yes, but I think the gloom-and-doom about poor education is a bit overblown.My points are as follows:

1. Scale. "Poor Education" probably doesn't mean "no smart people exist." Education probably isn't as widespread, but we should still have smart people, even if this is limited to the upper classes. Keep in mind that Newton managed to exist and do what he did despite living in an era where the "average" person probably falls well below what "poorly educated" in 1890 is. This helps, because if our officer corps is being recruited from the more well off side of things, they ought to at least have some degree of education.  We'd obviously be fucked if "poor education" meant something straight out of idiocracy where Beavis and Butthead would run circles around the upper echelons of our government, but I sincerely doubt that would be the case because of point three.

2. Impact. "Poorly educated" doesn't mean you are mentally disabled--it just means you didn't get a good education early on and are ignorant about things you would have otherwise learned. This shouldn't significantly affect their ability to be taught, something we would be doing anyways. Corruption is also limited to minor under my plan, so we should still be able to make the most of what we have and pick more intelligent individuals (relatively speaking) for the jobs that actually need intellect without the bureaucratic apparatus sabotaging itself.

3. Game mechanics. Poor Education is a (-2) flaw. Hidden Flaws, a (-3), was confirmed to be simply "you're bad at beta testing and often don't find bugs before ships are deployed" thing and not "holy shit everything randomly breaks when you look at it funny." I somehow doubt that Poor Education would follow its most cataclysmic "worst-case assumption" when something that's supposed to be worse than it was still distinctly bearable.

(6) Last plan, I Swear! : Kashyyk, Jilladilla, Failbird, SC777, AseaHeru, Vostok
(1) Rapid Progression (Wozzy)
(1) Privateers Who Are Nobody's Friends: MoP
(0) Last Minute Plan for Global Domination, to unite all under our Nation:
(1) Ahead of you, ahead of Ourselves: TricMagic

[TricMagic]

I'll note I'd rather have Technology Leader than Major Navel Power. Being a Major Navel Power can fall off in time. Though Economic Growth does offset that.

[Man of Paper]

What are you on about belly buttons for?

[Aseaheru]

 Could always be building mechanical computers. Some fairly serious ones where built in the late 1880s. And yes, I know jsut how off topic this is. Anyways, education, corruption, newly formed service, small dockyards, all these can be mitigated or are one-time drawbacks. Internal civil war and hidden flaws meanwhile can only have effort expended to protect against them.
 On hidden flaws, stating

Hidden Flaws, a (-3), was confirmed to be simply "you're bad at beta testing and often don't find bugs before ships are deployed" thing and not "holy shit everything randomly breaks when you look at it funny."

is also not the whole story, as one of the examples given by Joe at one stage is that it can directly lead to HMS Hood-type events.


 On that note, we really need to remember to have extensive compartmentalization and leave the sodding flash doors on, despite the impact it has on rate of fire.

[Vostok]

On hidden flaws, stating

Hidden Flaws, a (-3), was confirmed to be simply "you're bad at beta testing and often don't find bugs before ships are deployed" thing and not "holy shit everything randomly breaks when you look at it funny."

is also not the whole story, as one of the examples given by Joe at one stage is that it can directly lead to HMS Hood-type events.


 On that note, we really need to remember to have extensive compartmentalization and leave the sodding flash doors on, despite the impact it has on rate of fire.

That was said to be the possible result of a nat 1. which probably would’ve fucked us over anyways (though not quite as much) and still falls under “don’t find out about bugs until they’re deployed.”

[Aseaheru]

 Yes, but consider the idea that we dont find out about the bug for instant death until we have a substantial chunk of our navy built to a design that has that hidden flaw. In other words, it aint good. Particularly as we will probably wind up going with smaller(and thus more) ships as a result of optimizing build/repair times.

[Wozzy]

For those who haven't looked at Discord, Poor Education will give us a -1 to efficiency to anything we research that is 'ahead of our time'.

Presumably if we try to develop something in 1890 that was first seen in 1900 it would be considered 10 years "ahead of time", and this be liable for a Poor Education penalty

[Man of Paper]

but cool pirate dudes

[Aseaheru]

 Poor education is actually alot nicer than I thought then. Also, I can see "first seen" resulting much salt then. For example, RDX. First used in 1898 fer medicine, mentioned for explosives in 1916, which number to use? Jet engines have technically been arround since about 100BCE, Rockets from the 1200s, when do they start counting from?

 And yes, I know, Im sorry.

 Anyways, Joe, we got 9 votes for three things, with a clear winner, we ready yet?