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[Deus Asmoth]

hector

What do you think my position tells you about me, perhaps also in the light of IcyTea apparantly sharing it?

It tells me what your position is. I was pointing it out because you seemed to be implying that my having a position on Tric's role claim meant I couldn't do anything else during the day.

Yeah RVS is shit, but 4 people had posted prior to Tric's revelation. It allows scum to come in and react to it after preparation without any sort of basis about their mindset prior to it, which means they can hide in the noise of everyone wtf'ing that someone would reveal cop D1, guilty result or not.

So when do you think he should have claimed the result?

IcyTea

And claiming his role at the start of the day as the basis for his case stops Spin's scumbuddies from trying to defend him why, exactly?

Fighting against a mechanical case is hard, and scum loves to bus. It's much easier to hide and just go along with the lynch. D1 cases are usually behavioural rather than mechanical, and are easier to defend against. The plan is to attack the known scum with a soft case, see who jumps in to defend, and then nail it down with the hard case if necessary. The scumbuddies lose towncred and are clear targets for the next day.

In an ideal world, sure. There's also no reason why scum are more likely to go along with that plan than just not defend their team mate against a weak day 1 case, or indeed why a town player wouldn't point out that Spin is once against being D1 lynched on a weak behavioural case. Would that make them look scummy once Spin flips?

If a cop with a normal inspect found scum on N1, would you also be advocating for them to not claim that result until close to the end of D2?

In my opinion, a cop should milk their results for as much information as possible, and if possible, not claim them at all unless it completely wins the game. Claiming should always be the nuclear option. If your copping looks like normal scumhunting that just happened to be effective, you're a less likely target for scum kills.[/quote]
The problem is that you're assuming that the cop in question is able to build the case and get town on board without claiming and also without alerting the scumteam, which also runs the risk of not alerting town players with protection abilities.

Act on known information based on Spin's flip and how people interacted with Tric's claim?

That second part, there. That's the part about nailing the scumbuddies too that I've been talking about. Just replace "Tric's claim" with "Tric's soft case" and you've got just as good a starting point that doesn't involve an overt cop.

I disagree.

[Maximum Spin]

Oh my god this started already? I was not prepared for this.

Maximum Spin: Are you going to play D1 differently than last game?

Sure, it's a different game, I'll probably vote for different players!

Maximum Spin: Is it fate that you might get lynched D1?

No. Sometimes I get lynched D2.

... [this is the part where I read people voting me ]

Maximum Spin: What alignment is TricMagic?

fuck should I know? TM is hard to read due to being batshit at all available times. I mean, I guess the sensible thing to guess is mafia or third-party, but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.

Maximum Spin: Did you in fact receive TricMagic's alignment?

I have not received anything but my role PM, no.

Okay, caught up.

Uh, IDK, notquitethere seems marginally the least sincere of the people who fell for this, though honestly I could vote for any of them.
Did you know I just woke up? I'll... I'll come back later.

[TricMagic]

So, you are saying that somehow, someone got an ability off before me...

[hector13]

hector

What do you think my position tells you about me, perhaps also in the light of IcyTea apparantly sharing it?

It tells me what your position is. I was pointing it out because you seemed to be implying that my having a position on Tric's role claim meant I couldn't do anything else during the day.

I don’t think it means you can’t do anything else, but I honestly think it’s hamstrung your ability to do anything: anyone you ask questions to knows your vote is going to end up on MaxSpin at day end, so all they have to do is provide a decent response to your queries and they’ll be okay, at least for today.

Yeah RVS is shit, but 4 people had posted prior to Tric's revelation. It allows scum to come in and react to it after preparation without any sort of basis about their mindset prior to it, which means they can hide in the noise of everyone wtf'ing that someone would reveal cop D1, guilty result or not.

So when do you think he should have claimed the result?

I’m with IcyTea, he didn’t need to claim at all. All he had to do was stick on MaxSpin, and if Tric flipped we would then realize (excepting things which obscure flips or something) he probably had good reason to stay there. If he got another guilty result tomorrow, sure, fire off the claim, but even a town result means he has someone he knows has clean motives and he can try to convince them to vote with him.

Relying on protections that may or may not be in the game is a fool’s endeavor, especially since there may or may not be abilities that mess with results (redirects etc) in play.

PPE: Tric claimed he had to inform you of his alignment to get your’s, so... yay.

It probably helps that I’ve seen Max perform against a guilty result before... but later. Dinner and bed.

[Maximum Spin]

PPE: Tric claimed he had to inform you of his alignment to get your’s, so... yay.

Oh. Yeah, that didn't happen.

[Nirur Torir]

but I think it might just be town but crazy. I don't mean in the mechanical sense.

Uh, IDK, notquitethere seems marginally the least sincere of the people who fell for this, though honestly I could vote for any of them.
Did you know I just woke up? I'll... I'll come back later.

So you don't think he's a mechanically crazy cop.
Notquitethere "fell for [it]."
You're not voting for Tric.

Please explain, and help me combine these three statements.

[TricMagic]

PPE: Tric claimed he had to inform you of his alignment to get your’s, so... yay.

Oh. Yeah, that didn't happen.

Well, that's probably the best move you can make. As would not killing me and maybe trying to lynch me later. Or you can claim someone redirected. Or WIFOM.

Well, doesn't particularly matter right now. My role kinda reveals that, and we need to find other scum. So, hector13, why were you preparing a discredit, and why the misdirection of other's words with me as a focus?
Ninja. If he's mafia, he can't vote for me seriously, otherwise I'll flip, and he's dead, bused, busted. NQT is safe.

[Superdorf]

Hmm. Somebody's lying. Gotta figger out who. Gotta throw my vote somewhere too.

Max Spin: Yeah, I'll second Nirur Torir's question there. Why vote NQT, who's backing up a supposed fake cop-read rather than the guy who faked said cop-read in the first place? Also, are you aware of any Miller-like abilities your role might possess?

TricMagic: Max claims never to have received this alignment confirmation of yours. Do you think he's lying?

Everyone: In what situations (bar Tric lying through his teeth, of course) might Max not have received this alignment notification?

[TricMagic]

Anyone who redirected actions from Maxspin to another. Unlikely, as the result was mafia... If so, lying through his teeth and clenching. They really can't afford to leave me alive forever though, they just don't want to right now as that looks very bad for them.

[Maximum Spin]

So you don't think he's a mechanically crazy cop.
Notquitethere "fell for [it]."
You're not voting for Tric.

Please explain, and help me combine these three statements.

Oh right.

Okay, remember last game when I said I had complete confidence in you, personally, and then you accused me of buddying? I was being sarcastic. The first comment you list here was exactly the same thing, I was just implying that TM is personally crazy. I feel that there is possibly a pattern where you aren't getting my sarcasm, so, let me explain: I have no idea what's TM's deal is. I forbore to speculate.
When I said "fell for this", I wasn't necessarily being literal, would you prefer "went along with this"? Same basic thrust. NQT seemed like the one out of the group that looked most scummy for me at that immediate moment.
The preceding two facts explain why I'm "not voting for Tric": Because I have NFC what to think about him, whereas I have an FC what to think about NQT, if only a slight one. Also, I guess I slightly prefer not to vote against the first person who votes for me because it feels like it just reduces shit to a pointless he-said-she-said? I think I alluded to this last time too. I'd rather offer a credible third way than just shout NO YOU.

Max Spin: Yeah, I'll second Nirur Torir's question there. Why vote NQT, who's backing up a supposed fake cop-read rather than the guy who faked said cop-read in the first place?

Asked and answered. NQT's pileon smells way more suspicious to me. I'm absolutely willing to vote TM if things seem to be going that way, though. Actually, that does add something: NQT already had a vote and was therefore a marginally more realistic target, I guess? I didn't necessarily consciously consider that, but it probably influenced my choice.

Also, are you aware of any Miller-like abilities your role might possess?

Not OBVIOUSLY, but there are some things in my role that I'm not totally clear about what they mean and have PMed Shakerag about it, so, uh, watch this space I guess?

[TricMagic]

I guess it depends on what roles can do that during the day, I'll check.

Ninjaspin

[hector13]

PPE: Tric claimed he had to inform you of his alignment to get your’s, so... yay.

Oh. Yeah, that didn't happen.

Well, that's probably the best move you can make. As would not killing me and maybe trying to lynch me later. Or you can claim someone redirected. Or WIFOM.

Well, doesn't particularly matter right now. My role kinda reveals that, and we need to find other scum. So, hector13, why were you preparing a discredit, and why the misdirection of other's words with me as a focus?

I wasn’t preparing to discredit you. Again, I was trying to ascertain your logic and motive. You’ve explained, I’m satisfied.

I don’t know what you mean by “the misdirection of other’s words with me as a focus”, though, could you clarify?

@superdorf: a redirect, perhaps, though that seems stupendously unlikely.

PPE: Hey, gotta make sure posts go through...

Also, NQT should not be he focus here; I’ll let him explain.

Not read the last few posts properly.

[TricMagic]

Amnesiac Mafioso (town; rare; 8+ players): You have lost your memory. You might eventually regain it. An amnesiac mafioso eventually becomes a Mafioso and changes teams.

I am down to here in the list... Shakerag, would Nosy Neighbor tell the user they were mafia even if they didn't remember it? Unlikely, but it is the first so far that would mean something at all. Millers don't count to nosy neighbors, as we aren't cops.

Ninja. Bedtime for me...

[Superdorf]

Maximum Spin

Hm, lemme paraphrase to make sure I follow your words.

You suspect Tric might be third-party (or even town trying some crazy gambit), and you're reluctant to lynch him too quickly for that reason. At the same time, NQT jumped quickly on an easy lynch, for spotty reasons, and you therefore believe him to be mafia. Do I have that right?

I kinda have a problem with your "he-said she-said" rationale, as your vote on NQT is at least to some extent based on that "he-said she-said" squabbling. Why not just jump straight to the source? But your earlier words help explain that, assuming I understood them properly.

What's your current read on TricMagic? Mafia? Third-party? Crazytown?

[Maximum Spin]

Maximum Spin

Hm, lemme paraphrase to make sure I follow your words.

You suspect Tric might be third-party (or even town trying some crazy gambit), and you're reluctant to lynch him too quickly for that reason. At the same time, NQT jumped quickly on an easy lynch, for spotty reasons, and you therefore believe him to be mafia. Do I have that right?

YES. Exactly. Okay, this reassures me that I am explaining this adequately.

I kinda have a problem with your "he-said she-said" rationale, as your vote on NQT is at least to some extent based on that "he-said she-said" squabbling. Why not just jump straight to the source? But your earlier words help explain that, assuming I understood them properly.

Uh, I guess? I think there's a qualitative difference, though. One would be shouting "NO U" and asking everyone to pick between the two, you know?

What's your current read on TricMagic? Mafia? Third-party? Crazytown?

Uh, I might need longer to wake up before answering that, but as of right this second, mafia. But I'm not sure whether a competent partner would have okayed this strategy? I guess it depends on how much of an easy target I look like and how much of a threat I look like, both of which I can't possibly estimate.
Still, this strategy feels to me like a really low-effort copypasta of the thing that happened in Fallacy's game where I was mafia: right down to the first-phase inspect "to confirm that he was town". I'm not sure how that inheres, except maybe that I might guess that someone involved in coming up with it probably re-read that game recently. Anyway, my charitable answer is mafia, because that's the only situation in which this seems like it *might* be a reasonable thing to do? Especially if said mafia lacks kill abilities, say, and needs to trick people into lynching... actually, that makes me wonder.

Someone who has looked at the generator: Can it make a power which has an effect like "redirect actions targeting your target to target yourself instead"? That's something I would do on someone who seemed likely to draw early inspects, which, empirically, I apparently am.