For fu-
Right, I thought the weekend wouldn't count as time but it does so I guess I should actually lay my hand down since apparently I'm so amazeballs at making nothing look like something I have everybody convinced I've wanted to lynch IcyTea since my first post of the game. I fucked up thinking the day ended on Tuesday, not Sunday, meaning I can't pull as much out of IcyTea due to baby goats nibbling on my fingers this morning and travelling the rest of the day.
VOTES AREN'T JUST FOR LYNCHING, ELSE RVS WOULD BE REALLY FUCKING STUPID. I VOTE PEOPLE TO PRESSURE THEM, I PRESSURE THEM BY MAKING MY VOTE LOOK REAL (WHICH I'M REALLY FUCKING GOOD AT APPARENTLY) BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT WOULD JUST BE BRUSHED OFF AND WOULDN'T ACHIEVE ANYTHING. YOU WILL KNOW MY VOTE IS REAL WHEN I TELL OTHER PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR THE PERSON I'M VOTING FOR. UNTIL THEN... WELL I GUESS ASSUME IT IS AND GET INTO THIS MESS. SORRY.
Firstly, this shit with Icy Tea:
1 obvious RVS vote is not obvious, apparently. Again, it was my first post of the game, guys; I am a good player but I'm not so good to think I've found scum in less than 2 hours. I voted for IcyTea partly because Nirur was voting for him at the time (two votes is twice the pressure) and I noted a discrepancy in his thinking - namely, he said knowing roles was pointless, while evidently interested in whether or not people have powerful roles in
this post, specifically these two questions:
hector13: How would you react if your ability was swapped for something useless before the end of this day?
This, to me, looks like he's asking whether or not I think I have a powerful role.
Deus Asmoth: How afraid are you of the delayed-kill mechanics (poison, infection, fire) in play?
This looks like he's asking DA if he has a defense against any of these mechanics, like a block, redirect, or immunity.
He expressed confusion over what I meant
here. "oh-hos" I thinks "an opportunity to foster discussion", so I
ask him to look for what he thought I meant, but then move my vote to
MaxSpin, 'cause I thought another RVS vote elsewhere would be more useful at that point, given IcyTea had apparently gone to bed.
I come to find that
2 IcyTea thinks I wanted him to build a case on himself. My initial RVS vote has borne fruit! This post raised a number of red flags. Firstly, I didn't ask him to present a case, I asked him what he thought I was talking about. In my experience, scum tend to anticipate where a line of questioning is going and guide it toward making them look townie, in this instance, presenting a case I haven't made and then proceeding to defend against. He correctly pointed out part of what I wanted him to find, but then anticipated a conclusion
that I had not made that he could easily defend.
Secondly, he knows I'm a strong player, having played a few games with me, and instead of having this phantom case presented in objective terms, he presents me as a fool, "ehrmahgerd rolefishing" etc. in an effort to discredit a case that I, again,
have not made.
3 This bothered me a great deal. Why is IcyTea presenting me as an idiot drawing a conclusion I haven't made? I am thus emboldened to
return my vote which now has more bite behind it, in which I say "you were partly right in the evidence you found, this is the extra bit, this is the conclusion I made." and then I tell him I think he's scum because a vote that doesn't look real is like a broken pencil: pointless.
4 His response to that clarification is to vote me for focusing on RVS stuff, continuing to misrepresent me even though he is quoting me literally saying I have issue with the discrepancy between his words and his actions, which merely happened during RVS. This is because the conclusion I actually made is difficult to defend: he was doing something he said was pointless, a hypocrite. He also said I haven't done any other scumhunting, which is rather unfair given I said would have no time to post because I was busy working, then I was busy working, then I was busy travelling, then I was busy having baby goats nibble my fingers, then I was busy touristing and traveling, and now I want to go to bed but the day ends in like 12 hours so I need to explain wtf I was doing and try to explain it three different ways because three different people are actively asking me about it when I want to go to sleep.
The one major post I made (the post in part 3 below) when things were getting more interesting was not focused solely on him, and happened during the travelling when my phone wasn't dead. Who knew four people trying to charge their phone from one port would be so hard? Navigator got dibs, 'cause I was quite interested in getting to and from the destination.
5 Anyway, I clarify
again and he misrepresnts me
again and I then realise there's not as much time for me to draw blood from this stone as I expected, and need to actually
TL;DR:
1 RVS vote on IcyTea #1. Why is he a hypocrite?
2 IcyTea presents me as a fool drawing a conclusion I didn't make, and have never made, using only part of the evidence I asked him to look for in my RVS vote. The anticipatory nature of where he thinks I'm directing the line of questioning and his attempt to pivot it to a position he can easily defend is tremendously unsettling. Why is he putting words in my mouth and defending against that?
3 My vote now has teeth to it; I tell him the conclusion I actually made and call him scum, because I want him to believe I think that, otherwise he would just brush it off.4 He OMGUS's and misrepresents me again, pointing out that I'm focusing on his RVS questions when I am focusing on him doing something he said was pointless.
5 I clarify again, then
he misrepresents me again, because I'm voting for him, so why would I not want to build a case on him.
You'd be forgiven for thinking that's the only scumpick I have.
You'd also be forgiven for thinking it's my
top scumpick.
Leafsnail responds to RVS without much content, mostly theory.
Friendly post, can't say anything bad about that other than, again, no content.
Comes out of nowhere defending IcyTea - he's never seen scum rolefish, ergo rolefishing means someone isn't scum - and asks why I hadn't said why it was poor play. He also says I'm trying to run up a lynch on IcyTea, which is a lie, because I hadn't tried to get anyone to vote for IcyTea at that point. Or KitRougard, who was engaging in actual rolefishing. Wtf, I thinks, he doesn't know IcyTea or KitRougard are town, why is he discouraging me from voting
anyone, never mind those two specifically?
I respond, laying out what bothered me about IcyTea in the first place (the discrepancy between his words and actions: hypocrisy, filtered through the exemplar of his rolefishing) in a deliberately taciturn, obtuse manner about poor play not being a scum-exclusive thing, and that I haven't tried to run up any lynch. I did this because Leafsnail hadn't been talking, and this would force him to respond.
He responds
thus which is full of all sorts of nonsense I need to unpack. A quote to solve our problems, forming the crux of my case:
I find your heavy focus on rolefishing suspicious, hector13. You haven't at any point explained to the people engaging in it why it's poor play or considered that they may be mistaken - rather, it feels like you're using it as an opportunity run up lynches on people.
I'll accept it looks like my focus is on the rolefishing, but pretty much everything else here is wrong. Poor play is not scum-exclusive, and I have at no point suggested I want other people to vote for IcyTea. Try again?
I could offer examples of why rolefishing isn't necessarily negative but that would be providing IcyTea with an out, and I don't feel like doing that right now.
In saying that, still kinda RVS and I don't like that...
Nah. I'm happy with what I'm doing.
I find this response confusing. You say that my post is wrong, but you don't elaborate on what the problem with it is and instead agree with my main point: that playing poorly is not the same thing as being scum.
This is not what I agreed with, and shows a complete disregard for my clarification about why I was voting IcyTea in the first place. I never once said IcyTea was playing poorly, so that is not going to be any facet of any case I have against him.
Either willful misrepresentation or failure to engage with the game. In light of this:
You still aren't really engaging with this idea in the vote you make on IcyTea further up your post.
He read the post, acknowledged I made clarifications, but ignored it. Willful misrepresentation it is, then.
I do certainly think that rolefishing is anti-town, but I seriously doubt that a mafia member who knows it's anti-town would do it anyway, as the extremely unlikely benefits (rolefishing almost never works and the advantage it confers is not particularly big) is hugely outweighed by the negative attention it brings you. Of course a player who isn't aware it's anti-town might do it, but that applies regardless of alignment.
I'm not sure why he thinks I care about his thoughts on rolefishing. Again, he read the post in which I clarified I was more interested in the discrepancy between IcyTea's words and actions, his hypocrisy, but apparently I'm worried about rolefishing, and he thinks scum wouldn't do it, so IcyTea can't be scum.
Why is he defending IcyTea, of whom town!Leafsnail knows nothing about, again?
The idea that you don't want other people to vote for IcyTea is even stranger. I would've thought that the entire point of voting for someone while making an argument against them is to try and sway other people to your cause. Are you saying that you actually don't want anyone else to vote for IcyTea in spite of your case against them? Or are you objecting to me drawing this simple inference in the absence of you explicitly stating it?
I don't think your vote looks like RVS at all. Why are you trying to distance yourself from it like that?
This is interesting. I explained
here a little bit of detail on what I thought a vote was, particularly that it's not just a tool for lynching people and alluded that it was your number 1 content-generating power, so it's quite obvious why I hadn't tried to get anyone else to vote for IcyTea yet: I wasn't done gathering information. Why am I going to piss away my day by blowing my load so early? At least I thought it was too early at that point... hey turns out I don't know to make sure I have enough time to engage in silly games of content-generating chicken.
Readslist, no particular order.
Anyway, Leafsnail top scumpick. Not on the same team as IcyTea, but I don't think IcyTea is town so... IcyTea is third-party, Leafsnail is scum that is buddying IcyTea.
KitRougard might also be third-party, but I know he's new. Might be town.
Shakes, Superdorf, Nirur Torir are town, I will not vote for them today. Anyone who does so is bad.
TricMagic is thus bad. Misguided, perhaps, but I'm not accepting Superdorf as a reasonable choice for a lynch today, get with it, man.
DA is probably town, slim chance he's on a scumteam with Leafsnail. Would've liked to delve into that further but WHOOPS, WHERE DID THE TIME GO.
Starver is gone.
MaxSpin is bad. Willfully refuses to engage, don't understand it, will never understand it. Presumably learned forum mafia from a place with a strong focus on the night game?
RGU also bad. I don't know why you refuse to try. It's hard and scary, sure, but you say you know you need to get involved, so just get drunk and do it!
One of RGU MaxSpin and Tric are probably scum, but that's not factoring in the empty space that is Starver.
Author
Topic: Proc Gen Mafia 2 -GAME OVER - TOWN VICTORY (Read 100778 times)