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[scourge728]

AFAIK most average steam users don't know about that

[Bumber]

AFAIK most average steam users don't know about that

Most games don't use it. The DF Steam page could tell them about it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

AFAIK most average steam users don't know about that

Most "average Steam users"? Do you mean most "average Steam users who play games in which the beta menu allows you to roll back to a previous version"? Because everyone who plays Crusader Kings knows it's there. It being a very important part of any game with a long-term complicated development process that might break stuff on each release.

By the time anyone's invested enough time in Dwarf Fortress to care that the latest version isn't for them and they want to roll back, they'll know about the menu.

Most "average Steam users" won't play Dwarf Fortress at all.

[scourge728]

I was assuming the goal was to target the average steam user what with the graphics and all

[Shonai_Dweller]

I was assuming the goal was to target the average steam user what with the graphics and all

You're going to target the portion of Steam users who play indie games.
That's a big chunk of extra income, but don't kid yourself that Dwarf Fortress with graphics is somehow going to bring in millions of mainstream gamers.

[Inarius]

As long as the game is horribly hard to play even for simple things (building a table, managing stocks, or the horrendous squad management), it won't attract a lot of people, or only people attracted in this "type of this". But these people, mostly, are already here.

[Tinnucorch]

Even without the graphics, being available at Steam is a great way to make more (potentially interested) people to get to know about DF. Right now you could only know about dwarf fortress if you know someone who already plays the game or if some of this "the hardest game ever" headers catches your attention.

[scourge728]

I wouldn't call it the hardest game ever, but for sure one of the hardest games that isn't specifically designed to be unfairly difficult bull

[Putnam]

As long as the game is horribly hard to play even for simple things (building a table, managing stocks, or the horrendous squad management), it won't attract a lot of people, or only people attracted in this "type of this". But these people, mostly, are already here.

To be fair, I I have literally never managed a stack in my life

[Inarius]

I did. I read a very good tutorial and it helped. When you save your first dwarf in an hospital, you are happy. When your first militia trains you are happy.
In most games, it's just two clicks. Here, the fact that it is harder give you a bit more...satisfaction. Actually, it's "different".

[Tinnucorch]

It's not actually hard, it just has a too steep learning curve, which I think is a bigger obstacle for new players than graphics.

I suspect that all this Steam thing is more about reaching more people (similar to the people already playing DF) and less about making DF more of the taste of the average videogame player or whatever. In this sense, graphics seem to me to be something to justify charging for a game which is otherwise available free -but this is perfectly fine since there is now people working on that, of course.

[Shonai_Dweller]

It's not actually hard, it just has a too steep learning curve, which I think is a bigger obstacle for new players than graphics.

I suspect that all this Steam thing is more about reaching more people (similar to the people already playing DF) and less about making DF more of the taste of the average videogame player or whatever. In this sense, graphics seem to me to be something to justify charging for a game which is otherwise available free -but this is perfectly fine since there is now people working on that, of course.

Plenty of games have a steep learning curve. People like to be challenged. There's plenty of merit to a game which takes a long time to master.

But, in the end a whole lot of people would prefer to be challenged with the aid of graphics and automatic updates. Thus Steam.

[Tinnucorch]

It's not actually hard, it just has a too steep learning curve, which I think is a bigger obstacle for new players than graphics.

I suspect that all this Steam thing is more about reaching more people (similar to the people already playing DF) and less about making DF more of the taste of the average videogame player or whatever. In this sense, graphics seem to me to be something to justify charging for a game which is otherwise available free -but this is perfectly fine since there is now people working on that, of course.

Plenty of games have a steep learning curve. People like to be challenged. There's plenty of merit to a game which takes a long time to master.

But, in the end a whole lot of people would prefer to be challenged with the aid of graphics and automatic updates. Thus Steam.

I didn't mean that the learning curve of DF is necessarily a problem. I enjoyed learning the basics and I still enjoy learning how to do more complex things.

If I seem skeptic about graphics it's mostly because of the whole lot of problems that arise right now with them and that can't be solved because of code limitations. And this leads to what I think it must be a very old debate which is if it makes sense to invest time working in "accesibility" related stuff when there's a lot of work to do on the "content" side. Not that I want to open that can of worms, though -I'm perfectly happy with whatever way developement takes if it ensures the project long term survability. It's just that I, personally, don't care that much about graphics.

[Starver]

My advice: don't be afraid of the pausing. Take your time. Enjoy the flavour in the dwarf psychologies, and perhaps try looking into a build or option menu item you haven't paid much attention to.

You may well encounter something that will click with some need you encounter a short amount of game-time down the line, just be association. And, if not, it's probably not going to be completely irrelevant, so you won't actually be cluttering up your mind-palace, merely furnishing it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I seem skeptic about graphics it's mostly because of the whole lot of problems that arise right now with them and that can't be solved because of code limitations

For modding yes, there are limitations.
But we're not talking about modding. We're talking about Toady bringing forward the graphics modding support section of development. Coding. To remove the code limitations.

That he's doing this with advice from people highly experienced in what the current code limitations actually are is quite a positive development.