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[Pvt. Pirate]

I should note that you are not analyzing phonology, but rather orthography. Because these languages have no pronunciations, all we can do is examine how they are written. We cannot know what these letters are supposed to represent, if anything.

Sort of. Phonology isn't about the sounds per se, but about the system of sounds. True, we can't "know" what the letters represent, but that doesn't much matter if we have a few basic presumptions:
    1) every letter will represent the same phoneme everywhere, at least in one language -- so, <k> won't be [k] in kulet but [p] kel
    2) every letter will, where plausible, represent the closest English equivalent -- so, <k> won't represent [p]
       (I say English because I expect that's Tarn and Zach's native language, and they probably transliterated sounds/characters into a close approximation)
       (I should probably say closest IPA equivalent since that's, well, international)
With these presumptions (barring a few exceptions) we can reconstruct a phonological system, albeit a crude one. It's far from complete (cf. accented vowels everywhere), but it's enough to start us off. More importantly, if we don't make these presumptions, then we can't even begin, so I think it's fair to assume.

Anyway, that's a very minor point and not really worth arguing.

On the other languages, I had some ideas:

Elvish, with its strict open-syllable structure, puts me in mind of Japanese or some Polynesian language -- none of which I am familiar with. I'd say, however, that structurally it'd work well as a polysynthetic language, as tiny (C)V morphemes could be tacked on ad infinitum without making the words too hard to pronounce: cacame awemedinade monipalothi comes to mind...

Human... many ways you could go. Inflections are near-and-dear to my heart, so I'd be all for an Indo-European-style case/conjugation system. Structurally Human is pretty unremarkable, so it's easy to work with.

I haven't really given much thought to Goblin, except that it should be something alien. Do Underworld creatures have the same ideas we do about language? Do they interpret signals/symbols in similar ways? It's also possible that the Goblin "clusters" aren't clusters at all, but crude human attempts to represent utterly alien phonemes -- maybe strange quasi-fricatives or glides?

Kobold would be cool as a sort of semi-jibberish, an off-the-cuff language with a few guiding principles and the rest supplied by individual speakers emotions or personalities or whatnot. I strongly doubt any human language is analogous, but that's why it's a fantasy world for goodness' sake...

reminds me of the finnish words like "kalsarikännit" a verb meaning "drinking home alone wearing underpants"
or that other word which means the distance a reindeer can run without havin to pee

[Imic]

This is... Incredible. I’d love to learn to speak this, just for the sheer hell of it, but I wouldn’t have the time. Thank you.

[VABritto]

This is awesome! I will try to write things in it and see how it works lol

[Superdorf]

'Ey Solitarian, you've been wiki'd!

[Solitarian]

I'd obviously like to thank some people. I'll keep it short. I want to thank Charlie Crighton for doing the plot with me and Jamie and Kevin for writing their part. I would like to thank Michael Palin for changing the scene numbers. I'd also like to thank John Comfort, Jonathan Benson, Roger Murray Leech, Avel Pethock, Glenn Palm Smith, Cynthia Kayla, Maria Aitkin, Jonathan Aitkin, Lord Beaverbrook, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jack Cousteau and his wife Minnie, Soren Kierkegaard, Sunny Liston, and Hayden Jones and her husband Pip, Gregor Mendel (the founder of the science of genetics), my tailor, Harriet Beecher Stowe (author of Uncle Tom's Cabin), the Sydney Symphony Orchestra brass section, mother, Bismarck, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Birds, Basil Smallpeace, Saint Francis of Assisi, Diana Ross, Earl Hayde, Wile E. Coyote, Mother Theresa, Herb Albert and his Tijuana brass, Hermann Göring, Agatha Christie, the planet Saturn (and of course all of its rings), Jeremy Collins, the publicity department of Turkish Airways, the unknown soldier, Tammy Winnette, and last but of course not least: God.

[VABritto]

I'd obviously like to thank some people. I'll keep it short. I want to thank Charlie Crighton for doing the plot with me and Jamie and Kevin for writing their part. I would like to thank Michael Palin for changing the scene numbers. I'd also like to thank John Comfort, Jonathan Benson, Roger Murray Leech, Avel Pethock, Glenn Palm Smith, Cynthia Kayla, Maria Aitkin, Jonathan Aitkin, Lord Beaverbrook, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jack Cousteau and his wife Minnie, Soren Kierkegaard, Sunny Liston, and Hayden Jones and her husband Pip, Gregor Mendel (the founder of the science of genetics), my tailor, Harriet Beecher Stowe (author of Uncle Tom's Cabin), the Sydney Symphony Orchestra brass section, mother, Bismarck, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Birds, Basil Smallpeace, Saint Francis of Assisi, Diana Ross, Earl Hayde, Wile E. Coyote, Mother Theresa, Herb Albert and his Tijuana brass, Hermann Göring, Agatha Christie, the planet Saturn (and of course all of its rings), Jeremy Collins, the publicity department of Turkish Airways, the unknown soldier, Tammy Winnette, and last but of course not least: God.

Gad vargeth kinem...

[Solitarian]

Were you trying to say "that was beautiful"? "Gad" is a conjunction, not a pronoun. Dwarven has no pronouns, so there is no word for "that". You need to use a noun instead. Perhaps "writing belonging to Solitarian"? Except Dwarven has no word for "writing"... oh, that limited lexicon is annoying.

[VABritto]

Were you trying to say "that was beautiful"? "Gad" is a conjunction, not a pronoun. Dwarven has no pronouns, so there is no word for "that". You need to use a noun instead. Perhaps "writing belonging to Solitarian"? Except Dwarven has no word for "writing"... oh, that limited lexicon is annoying.

I could merely say "vargeth kinem" and leave it up to context maybe? Lol

If I needed to be clearer we could use Tathur (scribe) as a verb to write and then writing.

So a bit clearer would be "Tathur vargeth kinem" and even clearer would be TathurlongSolitarian vargeth kinem, though for most intents and purposes people would usually stick to simplicity (like how the Japanese in common speech rarely use pronouns simply because they are unwieldy). Could be good to make something that differentiates writing from to write. There is already a prefix used to create agents from non-agent words (ù[n]- as in Ùnil) There could be something like that which would differentiate a word from an abstract concept derived from it. Something like English -ship, -hood and -ity.

Maybe Mïk- as in Mïkstal (Ownership). I chose Mïk- because it is only found in Ownership at the beginning of a word and -stal doesn't mean anything else (so it could be a more formal word for "to own" (contrasting with sanreb). So you can say Urist sanrebgath Shokmug or Urist stalgath Shokmug and it means the same thing. I thought of other prefixes like Az- (because of Azmol and Azoth), but -oth already means something completely unrelated to Azoth. They COULD of course be homophones but I prefer not to create confusion in the language unnecessarily unless you want to make some rules to explain it. For example, you could make that when you attach the Az- to the word the main vowel changes, so Azoth would come from, for example, óth and not oth. But that's kinda unnecessary and we could simply explain it by saying Azoth is just an irregular word that doesn't use Mïk-

The phrase would then be: Mïktathur vargeth kinem (Writing, aka Scribeship, scribecraft, etc).

That can be used for our favorite phrase too: Mïkrigòtharkim Craftsdwarfship. So the phrase "All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality" would be something like: "Mïkrigòtharkim mulonak varudiz teleshonmïkkoth'ok" lit. [Abstract concept]+craft+dwarf all be+[Present] [superlative]+good+[abstract concept]+to analyse quality+in or Craftsdwarfship all is in best quality. I made up the word for to analyse something's quality as koth and with it made Mïkkoth, Quality. You can change it if you want lol koth could also mean to appraise and appraisal when a noun. Ùkoth could mean appraiser. Could also be a word for to inspect and Ùkoth also mean Inspector. So a person who sees if regulations are being kept (Össekùkoth) or a person who makes sure taxes are being collected (Stettadùkoth), while also being used for someone who appraises what jewel one has and its worth (Kadôlùkoth). A police inspector could be a Toralùkoth. Words that could be used with Mïk:

Mïketar - Kingship, the office of being King
Mïkerar - Leadership
Mïkellest - Kinship

It could also serve in a similar fashion as our -ism :

Mïkemär - Animalism

Another suggestion is to create place names using Zoden (house). It could also be shortened to -zod (there are currently no word in Dwarfish that ends in -zod so it wouldn't cause confusion). As in:

Nelzod(en) - Bakery, also called Ímzod
Imkethzod(en) - Court-House
Fidgamzod(en) - Congress house
Eshtânzod(en) - Smithy
Baroszod(en) - Funeral home
Rakustzod(en) - Cemitary
Turelzod(en) - School
Thîkutzod(en) - University or another word for School (Library already exists as a seperate word) Bookstore could be Thîkutrilbet
Mishthemzod(en) - Laboratory
Koshzod(en) - Slaughter House
Lokastzod(en) - Butchery
(Tel)saràmzod(en) - City Hall (the Mayor's office) Telsaràm could mean mayor (it means Greatest and is pretty much an etymological translation of Mayor which came from Major, in other words "Very Important" or "Greatest") and his office be either the "Great House" (Saràmzod) or the "Mayorial House" (Telsaràmzod). Another word for mayor could also be Serarkim (Head dwarf), or just Ser. And the word for City Hall be Serzod
Idräthzod(en) - Treasury
Duthnurzod(en) - Guardhouse
Ezarzod(en) - Garrison
Âmzod(en) - Auditorium
Ralzod(en) - Bank (there is a word for bank in Dwarfish, Gérig, but I STRONGLY advise using it only for geographical features like riverbank because we don't have a seperate word for that and it is much easier to form a word for (money) Bank than (river) bank)
Kinemzod(en) - Salon, beauty parlour
Duradzod(en) - Barbershop. I imagine there being dwarves completely specialized in only doing beards and making them as great as dwarvenly possible. A Kinemzod would be less specialized and thus cheaper.
Zustzod(en) - Dormitory
Lanlarzod(en) - Aviarium. I'd call bird-houses Lanlarbom, emphasising it as a place where they live.
Bobrurzod(en) - Maternity house
Ikûlzod(en) - generic term for a coop (chicken coop for example). The word Ikûl can be substituted for the word for chicken or peacock or turkey depending on specialization (whenever those words enter the vocabulary lol)
Bisólzod(en) - Elderly Home, Hospice Home, Asylum (place).
Gidurzod(en) - Museum
Zalstomzod(en) - Pharmacy
Ikalzod(en) - Hospital, in poetry also called Ilonzod
Cilobzod(en) - an above ground house, what humans usually mean when they say "house"
Dákzod(en) - those monstrocities elves live in
Ibrukzod(en) - Ashery
Inodzod(en) - Gatehouse
Ivomzod(en) - the room where you keep your farm plots. Given that dwarves mostly farm indoors it is natural that there is a word for it.
Kadôlzod(en) - Jewelry shop
Kalurzod(en)  - Throne room
Kegethzod(en) - storage room
Maszod(en) - grainery
Tathurzod(en) - Scriptorium
Lolorzod(en) - Post Office
Lolumzod(en) - Carpentry shop
Mugshithzod(en) - Torture room
Namàshzod(en) - Brewery
Ramtakzod(en) - Execution room
Ngitkarzod(en) - Fishery
Ninurzod(en) - Probably a more lowkey word for Brothel. How posh people would call it
Nishzod(en) - Generic word for "shop" or "store"
Nitomzod(en) - Observatory, Planetarium, also called a Vîrzod
Olmulzod(en) - bathhouse
Orshetzod(en) - Crematorium
Rafarzod(en) - Kitchen
Sebïrzod(en) - Tannery
Vucarzod(en) - Columbarium
Âlzod(en) - Gym (just in case such a thing ever appears lol)
Åmzod(en) - Nursery
Ódadzod(en) - Tavern

I imagine Dwarves would not use the word house the same way we do given they mostly live in connected underground rooms inside fortresses. So a house would just be a collection of rooms that are part of a whole or a room that is independent. All the rooms of a tavern would be part of one house for example. A room designated for workshops would be a house. A "room" would be a room that is part of a bigger whole (i.e. the individual rooms inside a tavern). Many of the words in the list could have -mosus at the end of them instead of -zod depending on the place's layout, for the reason I just said

[VABritto]

I have been working for a while on the Annals of a Kingdom in one of my DF worlds. I basically just write in the form of Annals every event I find interesting. I made its opening lines in Dwarfish and I had to make up some words and some grammar shananigans. Can you tell me if this is acceptable Dwarfish?

ÎDTHÎKUT-LONGULTÈRZEFON

Havudiz Zunarkimosor. Ådosor kôrudiz'ver Emosor-longTetóthfikod lok Sitalosor-longSazir Arist, Irolosor-longUrvad Ked, Migrurmonom lok Timnärducim lok Lalosor-longMafol Gesis lok Titthalaban. Ådthîkut varudiz Îdthîkut-longUltèrzefon 'Onolbom-longTitthalaban' Ashok'ar-longTorishselor-longEtur Ûthirlolor Etar lok Dôbar-longUltèrzefon Ashok'ishob-longSolon Orsistiden Ärged-longMelbil Etar 'Etur-longMadir Adrïth'lug'.

See if you can understand it without the translation in hand. The vocabulary is underneath. Here is the translation:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

ANNALS OF ULTÈRZEFON

There are Seven Kingdoms of the Dwarves. These are the eastern kingdom of Tetóthfikod, the western kingdom of Sazir Arist, the northern kingdoms of Urvad Ked, Migrurmonom and Timnärducim, and the southern kingdoms of Mafol Gesis and Titthalaban. These are the Annals of Ultèrzefon, Capital of Titthalaban, from the coronation of King Etur Ûthirlolor and the founding of Ultèrzefon to the times of King Solon Orsistiden Melbil's son, his descendent and heir.

Vocabulary:
kôr - to call
Åd- This, these determiner (needs noun), used for things close to the speaker
Ùd - that, those determiner (needs noun), used for things far from both the speaker and the listener
Òk - that, those determiner (needs noun), used for things far close to the listener but far from the speaker

Torishselor - Coronation Ceremony
Madir - Descendent, I took this from Midor (Power), because of how in ancient Greek poetry the descendents of Hercules are called his 'power'.
Adrïth - Heir, inspired from Idräth (treasure)
'lug - And, like the conjunction lok but used primarily when talking of things that naturally go together, like "brother and sister", "husband and wife", "king and country" etc.


Bonus vocabulary:
Sturem - Grandfather, ancestor. Made it by putting Gost + Urem (Arch Father) and then removing the Go-
Stobrur - Grandmother, ancestor, Gost + Bobrur
Nobsturem - Great-grandfather
Mezsturem - Great-great-grandfather
Stärged - Grandson
Staruth - Granddaughter
Stilat - Grandchildren, grandchild
Gostmer - Grand-uncle
Stermis - Grand-aunt
Ludär - Paternal Nephew, from Alud+ärged (brother's son)
Nirär - Maternal Nephew (sister's son)
Ludsar - Paternal Niece (brother's daughter)
Nirsar - Maternal Niece, from Anir+Saruth (sister's daughter)
Ludtil - Paternal Nephews (including nieces)
Nirtil - Maternal Nephews (including nieces)
Stirär - Grand-maternal-nephew
Studär - Grand-paternal-nephew
Studsar - Grand-paternal-niece
Stirsar - Grand-maternal-niece
Studtil - Grand-paternal-nephews (including nieces)
Stirtil - Grand-maternal-nephews (including nieces)
Ellest - besides meaning kin, Ellest could more specifically mean someone who is related to you. A generic term for kinsman basically.
Osel - patrillinial cousin or kinsman, from udos+ellest
Alel - matrillinial cousin or kinsman, from aral+ellest (I imagine these very detailed kinship terms would be amply used given how long lived dwarves are. Why did I detail the gender origins of uncle-nephew relations but not grandson-grandfather? Because the relationship between a descendent and an ascendent tends to be that of reverence, or at least respect, while that of more collateral relations seemed a lot more tenuous and needing to be defined. They might want to know if the person is patrillinially or matrillinially related to them)

Grammar notes:
I used the verb to have (hav) also as the word for "there be". We have that in portuguese and I think it is effective. But if you think it might cause confusion I can try to make a word up specifically for that. I put the title after the name (Etur Etar for King Etur) because if I put the title before the name it would sound like "Royal Etur" which can be used poetically but isn't exactly what the person said. I also used Boy instead of Child when speaking of King Solon's father because I am roleplaying that the word child is mostly used to speak of children (in the plural) of mixed gender. This is so that they can meticulously trace their patrillinial and matrillinial lines through the words Boy and Girl. The surname Orsistiden is not the surname he has in the game. It is actually a combination of the first half of the surname of his oldest recorded matrillinial ancestor (Orsist-) and his oldest recorded patrillinial ancestor (-iden). In my story, males are considered part of their male clan while females are part of their female clans and both clans are part of a tribe (basically a tribe is the male descendents of a common male ancestor + the female descendents of a common female ancestor to which both sides are direct descendents.)

Example of the kinship system:

Etur and Edëm have two sons and two daughters. The sons are Urist and Solon. The daughters are Geshud and Ïngiz.
Solon has a son named Tulon and a daughter named Iden. Geshud has a son named Rigòth and a daughter named Rîsen.
Urist has a son named Avuz.
Ïngiz has a daughter named Mistêm.
Tulon is Urist's Ludär. Iden is Urist's Ludsar. Rigòth is Urist's Nirär. Rîsen is Urist's Nirsar. Tulon is Avuz' Osel. Rigòth is Avuz' Ellest (kin, generic). Mistêm is Rigòth's Alel (because they are matrillinially related).

[Solitarian]

I like mik-, but that doesn't appear in other Dwarven words. I wanted to make rules to match existing Dwarven. Ducim means work, so maybe Ducimrigotharkim or Ducim-longRigotharkim (the work of a craftdwarf) would be acceptable, but that's a bit unwieldy. I am ambivalent about Mïk-. I think differentiating between the noun and its abstract concept is good, but I'm afraid of doing something that does not match the in-game text.
I would say "mulonak mikrogotharkim", as "all" is describing "craftsdwarfship". Zatthud is judge, so I would use that as a verb for "evaluate".

I think the doer of action should be marked by udos (debudos = eater), except no existing words do that. As such, I like Ú being an abbreviation for Udos (man). Údeb would be "eater", then. I like that. The problem is that Dwarven is not consistent about that, so no rule can be applied generally. The in-game the words for teach and teacher are the same, so should they not be the same here too?

Zod(en) being added is good. I like that. nelzod = bakehouse. very good! I will add that to the codification.

Where should we write all the extra words of the lexicon? I think we should just append language_DWARF so everything is in one place.



ÎDTHÎKUT-LONGULTÈRZEFON means the annals belonging to Ulterzefon. This just means that Ulterzefon owns the annals, but the annals might not describe Ulterzefon. Use the postposition üb (about, concerning), so ÎDTHÎKUT ULTÈRZEFON'ÜB.
I'm not sure what îd in îdthîkot is.
I like a subjectless "hav" meaning "there are", though such passive constructions can be avoided by finding a subject. Perhaps this "hav" construction could just be poetic.

This and that are relative pronouns. Dwarven does not have pronouns. I made tang (here) and dog (there) to be used to mark the concept of nearness or farness, so your words like Åd cannot be in the language.
"kab" is name. I would use that as a verb for "call". I am called Solitarian = Kutam kab-udiz'ver Solitarian.
Emosor-longTetóthfikod means the eastern kingdom belonging to Tetothfikod. This means that tetothfikod is not the eastern kingdom, but rather its owner.
Commas are not used in lists, so "Urvad Ked, Migrurmonom lok Timnärducim..." should be "Urvad Ked lok Migrurmonom lok..."
Remember shámman can mark plurality, though it isn't strictly necessary. Shámmanomor = many kingdoms
Onolbom = mountainhome. very good. You also correctly used the apposition construction. You are good at this!

Ashok'ar-longTorishselor-longEtur Ûthirlolor looks good to me, except I'm not sure what "elor" means. Did you mean "selor" (rite)? Torishselor would be the rite of crowning, and I think that is a perfect word to describe a coronation.
Perhaps the reign of king Etur could be Ashok'ar-longEturtorish (of the time belonging to etur crown. the name Etur becomes an adjective describing the crown. very poetic, like Edwardian or Georgian or Elizabethan)
What is Dôbar?
I dislike 'lug. That would only be for collocations.
"Madir" as "descendant" is ok, but there is already a word for child (tilat).
I think the Swedish style would make sense for Dwarven. Mor = mother, Mormor = grandmother, Mormormor = great grandmother, etc. We could use ordinal numbers for longer ancestries, like Nagturem (seventh father, i.e. 7 generations ago).

Etur Etar makes sense to me. It could be translated as "Etur the king".

[Inarius]

This is very impressive. There were many attempts to create "something" about dwarven language, but i think this is the best attempt so far. I hope Toady will read you ! (Maybe you should try ? or have you already ?)

[Solitarian]

Given that this thread is now in the wiki, I have no doubt that Toady is already aware of it.

[VABritto]

I like mik-, but that doesn't appear in other Dwarven words. I wanted to make rules to match existing Dwarven. Ducim means work, so maybe Ducimrigotharkim or Ducim-longRigotharkim (the work of a craftdwarf) would be acceptable, but that's a bit unwieldy. I am ambivalent about Mïk-. I think differentiating between the noun and its abstract concept is good, but I'm afraid of doing something that does not match the in-game text.

I used Mïk- from Mïkstal (ownership) and imagined it coming from an abstract-word element before the -stal. I understand the fear that it becomes too dissimilar from in game dwarfish, but I have a fear that if we don't innovate here we will make the language too unwieldy as you rightly pointed out. Ducim works, but Ducim makes the word bigger than Mïk- (by one syllable, but this is accumulative because other stuff will in the end be placed on a word because of the agglutinative nature of Dwarfish so I try to make all my innovations very short and make full use of the myriad of vowel possibilities to make more differentiations.

I would say "mulonak mikrogotharkim", as "all" is describing "craftsdwarfship".

Understood! Will remember that.

Zatthud is judge, so I would use that as a verb for "evaluate".

Makes sense, so evaluation would be Mïkzatthud (if you still think of using my system) or Ducimzatthud (if you use the Ducim system you mentioned). I differentiate that from the proposed Koth word (for appraise) because you can end up confusing Quality with Evaluation. (You don't want to call someone to a Quality, but to an Evaluation, so it is good that these words be clearly differentiated). But languages have a lot of ambiguity so if you feel like it must be one word that isn't too much of a problem. People would just have to get what it means by context.

I think the doer of action should be marked by udos (debudos = eater), except no existing words do that. As such, I like Ú being an abbreviation for Udos (man). Údeb would be "eater", then. I like that. The problem is that Dwarven is not consistent about that, so no rule can be applied generally. The in-game the words for teach and teacher are the same, so should they not be the same here too?

It would be Ù and not Ú, but I agree it could be seen as a leftover from Udos! Makes a lot of sense. Regarding it not being consistent in Dwarfish: We only have a few thousand words in Dwarfish, those could basically be ALL the irregular words in the language and the regulars carry Ù like Ùnil.

Where should we write all the extra words of the lexicon? I think we should just append language_DWARF so everything is in one place.

Makes sense. You are also making a dictionary right? You could simply make a few posts in this thread and link to them in the OP with all the words in alphabetical order (like the Magic System suggestion thread does). That way it is easily accessable and well organized. Remember to make the vowels clear because they can change the meaning of a word Completely (like in Âm, Åm, speech and baby respectively)

ÎDTHÎKUT-LONGULTÈRZEFON means the annals belonging to Ulterzefon. This just means that Ulterzefon owns the annals, but the annals might not describe Ulterzefon. Use the postposition üb (about, concerning), so ÎDTHÎKUT ULTÈRZEFON'ÜB.

Ok! I changed it here. I am starting to learn better how to use the language. Thank you!

I'm not sure what îd in îdthîkot is.

It is Îd as in Year. So Îdthîkut means Year Book, Annals. A book that stores information in a yearly pattern.

This and that are relative pronouns. Dwarven does not have pronouns. I made tang (here) and dog (there) to be used to mark the concept of nearness or farness, so your words like Åd cannot be in the language.

I anticipated this and made Åd Ùd and Òk determiners and not pronouns. A pronoun takes the place of a noun, a determiner qualifies the noun. So you cannot say Åd Ùd or Òk alone. They need to be "adjectivized" to a noun, thus bypassing the pronoun rule and keeping the same level of clarity. So "Ådthîkut" would mean This book, but "Åd" alone would mean nothing because it doesn't exist alone. Kinda like how in English "Dog's" means Of a dog, but " 's " alone doesn't exist.

"kab" is name. I would use that as a verb for "call". I am called Solitarian = Kutam kab-udiz'ver Solitarian.

Makes sense, I will change this in the Annals!

Emosor-longTetóthfikod means the eastern kingdom belonging to Tetothfikod. This means that tetothfikod is not the eastern kingdom, but rather its owner.

How should I word it then? Just Emosor Tetóthfikod?

Commas are not used in lists, so "Urvad Ked, Migrurmonom lok Timnärducim..." should be "Urvad Ked lok Migrurmonom lok..."

So kinda like latin right? Ok, I am changing it in the Annals to fit these rules. It would be good to write it in the Grammar.

Remember shámman can mark plurality, though it isn't strictly necessary. Shámmanomor = many kingdoms

Yes, I tried not to use it deliberately here for poetic appeal (I imagine given Dwarfish's agglutinative nature that short concise wording is seen as more refined and poetic) but I will definitely use it when the Annals start being more matter-of-factly (this opening is more poetic because it is the opening verses of the Annals. Afterwards they will use a more bookish manner of speech).

Onolbom = mountainhome. very good. You also correctly used the apposition construction. You are good at this!

Thank you very much! I am loving Dwarfish so far. It is very fun to work with lol

Ashok'ar-longTorishselor-longEtur Ûthirlolor looks good to me, except I'm not sure what "elor" means. Did you mean "selor" (rite)? Torishselor would be the rite of crowning, and I think that is a perfect word to describe a coronation.

Exactly! Crown Rite = Coronation! ^^

Perhaps the reign of king Etur could be Ashok'ar-longEturtorish (of the time belonging to etur crown. the name Etur becomes an adjective describing the crown. very poetic, like Edwardian or Georgian or Elizabethan)

The word for reign is Ikud in Dwarfish, but I thing using Torish this way as a poetic expression is very good!

What is Dôbar?

In Dwarfish it means Creation so I used it to mean Foundation as well since we have no word for that.

I dislike 'lug. That would only be for collocations.

I took the idea from latin -que (as in Senatus Populusque Romanus, the Senate and People of Rome). I find it very poetic and gives an impression of symmetry to certain phrases. Father and son. Mother and daughter. Ship and Crew. King and Country. I like the idea of having a specific word element that shows this more "weighty" and. But if you dislike it I can take it out. I will wait for your final judgement before removing it though, because I like it a lot xD

"Madir" as "descendant" is ok, but there is already a word for child (tilat).

You are right! But it could create confusion when you want to make sure someone understands you are not talking about someone's direct one generation child (the text is trying to emphasize that Solon is a far off descendent of Etur, to show lineage). It could be that Madir is a more specialized word used more by genealogists while most people just say Tilat even for their grandchildren and greatgrandchildren and so on?

I think the Swedish style would make sense for Dwarven. Mor = mother, Mormor = grandmother, Mormormor = great grandmother, etc. We could use ordinal numbers for longer ancestries, like Nagturem (seventh father, i.e. 7 generations ago).

The problem is that mother is Bobrur and it is a big word. Bobrurbobrur would be grandmother and Bobrurbobrurbobrur would be great-grandmother. Remember also that dwarves live A LONG TIME. A Swede would mostly not have a living great-grandmother. A Dwarf might have a living Great-great-great-grandmother. So words need to be short and clear. That is why I made new ones with only two syllables (following the general dwarven pattern of two syllable words). But you are right to add the -t- in the middle, I forgot about that! So Seven times great grandfather would be (if you agree with my system) Nagtsturem. Hum... Most people would probably just say Nagsturem though because the -t- becomes a bit unwieldy before -st. But I don't think that is a problem. What do you think of my reasonings?

What did you think of my other kinship terms?

Etur Etar makes sense to me. It could be translated as "Etur the king".

Exactly! Kinda like Hebrew. David HaMelech (King David, David the King).

The current version of the Annals of Ultèrzefon:

ÎDTHÎKUT ULTÈRZEFON'ÜB

Havudiz Zunarkimosor. Ùdosor kabudiz'ver Emosor Tetóthfikod lok Sitalosor Sazir Arist lok Irolosor Urvad Ked lok Migrurmonom lok Timnärducim lok Lalosor Mafol Gesis lok Titthalaban. Ådthîkut varudiz Îdthîkut Ultèrzefon'üb 'Onolbom-longTitthalaban' Ashok'ar-longTorishselor-longEtur Ûthirlolor Etar lok Dôbar-longUltèrzefon Ashok'ishob-longSolon Orsistiden Ärged-longMelbil Etar 'Etur-longMadir Adrïth'lug'.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are Seven Kingdoms of the Dwarves. Those are the eastern kingdom of Tetóthfikod, the western kingdom of Sazir Arist, the northern kingdoms of Urvad Ked, Migrurmonom and Timnärducim, and the southern kingdoms of Mafol Gesis and Titthalaban. These are the Annals of Ultèrzefon, Capital of Titthalaban, from the coronation of King Etur Ûthirlolor and the founding of Ultèrzefon to the times of King Solon Orsistiden Melbil's son, his descendent and heir.

I am still not happy with Dôbar-longUltèrzefon because it is not the Foundation belonging to Ultèrzefon, but the foundation OF Ultèrzefon, but I don't know any other way to express it as of now :/

[Inarius]

@Solitarian : i wouldn't be too sure. I don't think Toady reads so much the wiki, let alone last paragraph about "language". Maybe you should green something here, or ask about it directly in fotf.

(as a bonus : it may attract more people to this. After all, i only found this topic yesterday, even if i come nearly everyday on this forum and even if i'm very interested by the topic !)

[Solitarian]

Inarius:
Really? Well, I suppose I could try. I don't know what "green" as a verb means, though.

VABritto:
My moratorium on Mïk has ended. I think it is important enough to include, so I will add it to the codification. Could we maybe change it to Mik, though? I imagine that most users will find typing an ALT code (as it does not appear on English keyboards) for that letter every time to be annoying, so making it a normal i would be easier. Linguistic utility is more important than adherence to in-game text if we want this language to be useful. Moreover, language_DWARF is only used for names, and names are often exceptions to rules. A place in France might have a French name which was inherited from the medieval Frankish name which was inherited from the ancient Latin name which was inherited from the more ancient Celtic name which was inherited from some pre-Indo-European language, so that name would be weird due being processed by all those languages.

Yes, Ù is the proper prefix, not Ú. I forget sometimes because they look so similar. I have just added everything to the end of a copy of language_DWARF to make a "dictionary". I suppose I could type everything into an Excel spreadsheet, but that sounds like a huge amount of work for little gain, as we already have a list. You can just CTRL-F to find whatever you seek. One major problem with this, however, is that language_DWARF does not render some Dwarven letters properly. That I why I could not find îd, as it appears as something else. I suppose making our own list would be better, but I feel a bout of "I don't feel like it" overcoming me.

I still don't like the determiners. Because of Dwarven's modular nature (nouns can be used as verbs, verbs can be nouns, etc.), I fear that people would rapidly become attached to those determiners and use them as nouns to take the place of pronouns. I guess they would become propronouns.

Emosor Tetóthfikod would be fine if you make one of those an apposition. Tetóthfikod 'Emosor' makes sense to me, as it means Tetóthfikod the eastern kingdom. Perhaps that could be used for titles too. Etur 'Etag' = Etur the king, Etur who is king.

I dislike 'lug because it guarantees collocations, which I expressly avoid. Collocations like "king and country" or "lo and behold" become linguistically frozen and retain antiquated elements ("lo" appears in no other context), and the meaning is held by the phrase, not the separate words. I want all words to be meaningful, so establishing collocations which must always be recited the same way each time does not appeal to me.

Mother being Bobrur is no problem. This is just like in Swedish, as the full word for mother is "moder". However, moder becomes abbreviated as "mor". Similarly, "fader" (father) becomes "far". Mormor = mother's mother, farmor = father's mother. Bobrur could thus be shortened as Bor. I suppose urem could be shortened as ur. Borbor = mother's mother, Urbor = father's mother. I think your terms for genealogy sound poetic, but I think they would be confusing elsewhere. I think a system of agglutinating numbers and abbreviated familial titles (father, mother, brother, etc.) is simpler.

I like your annal text now. The problem with Dôbar-longUltèrzefon is understandable, but I think context makes the meaning clear. I suppose you could pick a postposition to abstractly mean what you intend. Pre/postpositions are finicky anyway. For example, in English one says "I am interested *in* that", but in German one says "Ich interessiere mich da*für*" (I interest myself *for* that). The same idea is being expressed by both phrases, but for whatever reason different prepositions are chosen.