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Author Topic: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains  (Read 3093 times)

FantasticDorf

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Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« on: January 23, 2019, 02:09:55 pm »

Im aware of some other threads have covered the concept and notion of digging up fossils but I think i have a concept that would fit in very nicely with DF without being overly complex or contemporary to our own world's reasonable success collecting and interpreting fossils.

Fossils are bones of creatures that have been long dead which we'll be referring to as 'Petrified Bones' since akin to petrified wood a lot of time has passed by and fossils in itself is actually a broad term to a spectrum of objects, ranging from sea creatures, plants, but relevant to ourselves are bones, and ammonites/shelled creatures and ivory from ancient elephants.

How fossils generate


To establish a set of bones to be found in a stone or dirt layer, it needs to accord to when the creature's entire species went extinct, in the present era or in times past, this would be handled by a new tag to denote that a creature in the RAWS is already deceased, but existed at one time. [EXTINCT://years since//]

Any period of time set before the current state of world generation is referred to as "a time before time" but geology practices know slightly better. If a creature dies in the process of world generation and the game progresses for 50 to a 100 or more years, their bodies will be committed to usually the first layer of stone in the quantity of frequency of when they were alive and roughly where they lived etc.

Fossils of creatures that pre-date world generation would be sourced from a fossil.raw with a array of creatures with the tag [EXTINCT:100,000] or long varying dates with the tag denoting the actual length in years relevant to how deep in the geological layers they are found.

Examples of fossil source creatures
Quote
[CREATURE:MAMMOTH]
> Has Ivory, so distributed mammoth remains would grant extremely valuable 'petrified ivory'
> Large body mass, so a lot of bones per-frequency would be distributed across layers
> Lives in cold climates hence where the bones would be found

> Glaciers preserve things perfectly, so it might be possible to find some other abstract body objects from the creature raw, like meat or if very lucky, a entire petrified corpse. do not let a necromancer re-animate it; it'll start the countdown to rotting when revealed so the heavy beast needs to be processed fast.

[CREATURE:AMMONITE]
> A exception to the rule, this creature overrides with [LIVING_FOSSIL://date//] which grants it both the status of being found in fossil layers (according to input), while still being alive in the present time, Coelacanth's are similar, as are sharks having lived in the seas for millenia, but having cartiligenous bones might yield junk.

> A verminous creature, their remains would be littered in and around oceans, petrified ammonite shells are worth significantly more than recently harvested ones.
> Ammonite shells were a common collectors item of interest in the past, even whilst the creatures were misunderstood or misinterpreted like other creatures.

[CREATURE:LIZARD_TYRANT/DINOSAUR]
> Generic enormous stomping dinosaur, it being on a raw being open ended to interpretation without getting into the specifics, whether it is a carnivore theropod or herbivore like the respective anklysaurid & sauropod hardcoded bodytypes, these exist in the rock deep underground seperated by a large gap in time.

> Giant petrified theropod teeth may be valuable, as are any horns and claws that they have besides their impressive skulls and robust bones.

[CREATURE:PRECURSOR_RACE]

> Sentient remains are not discounted from the list of potential creatures being extinct, for the purpose of 'lore' in a modified game you might want to create a race that lived many aeons previously, this can tie into mythology where relevant, prototypes of the gods before settling upon what they have at present. Perhaps metal constructs like golems lying dormant within the earth waiting for new masters upon unearthing and awakening with a interaction?

Use In the Fortress


As i've been mentioning, there's a lot of petrified resources sourced from the body of the creatures it comes from, each petrified resource is worth double or triple initially of their original material, with the creature's own material modifiers accounted for making excavation of these limited supplies lucrative. Petrified materials themselves are subclasses of the refuse materials and hence would be workable by all the jobs, if you wanted to inscribe mammoth ivory into bed for a special occasion for instance via a craftshop.

  • To reveal fossils, all that is required is to dig stone, the fossil will pop out where present, and the stone itself will have a text notice about the fossil contained within prior to digging (announcements optional i guess) governed by the rng that already determines where ores and common stones will drop from regular walls or if you will destroy the fossil with it.
Researchers additionally would use viewing a fossil within the natural sciences field as a source of inspiration, rather than the typical thoughts regarding prayers, nightmare premonitions and sudden brainwaves. It wouldn't contribute anything important but may form the basis of a observation on how a particular group of animals lived or what they looked like. Later developments with scholars might open the pathway to build a impressive (and no doubt wildly valuable) multi petrified bone piece complete skeleton as a form of statue.

Graveyards and buried bones

In civilized settlements, graveyard arrangements will commit the dead to these public areas where large densities of bones could be found if you dug into them, slowly as time goes by drifting down the geological layers depending on how much use they are recieving for a few world tiles around the settlement too.

Digging into bones of citizens may be disrespectful to civs, and disturbing ancient resting places can invoke a influx of ghosts unless they are re-interred. A fine line that these bones typically wouldn't be petrified like the rest, hence very little benefit to collecting them.

  • Bones that are excavated of sentients, perhaps looking perpectively to a long extinct dwarven race with some modding work whilst playing as another species adhere to the usual trophy ethic rules, hence make better display items as they are rather than be converted into high value totems.
//Reading list// - will write in later.
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compsognathus

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2019, 05:08:22 am »

Good suggestion.
I add:
the discovery of fossils could generate myths and legends.

the dwarves could sell the fossil to other civilizations.

if it is exhibited in a public museum, many scholars will study it and write books, this could generate atheists.


if it will be bought by a rich private and hidden in the house, he could create a secret religious sect to use the faithful as free villains (to insert a new attribute: psychology).

or it could simply generate a new religion.

wild populations can worship dinosaur footprints found on the surface.


http://www.everythingselectric.com/dinosaur/
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Azerty

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2019, 04:33:40 pm »

There's another way to have fossile species: we could simply generate them, and it would be even more realistic if we combinate this with a tanomomy system.

Could plants be covered with this fossil system?

Lastly, it could be a good way to implement amber.
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Kyubee

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2019, 05:14:10 pm »

particularly powerful necromancers can animate the actual fossilized skeletons of dinosaurs. Powerful magic users of other spheres (Nature, life, maybe even power) can create living dinosaurs from fossilized dinosaur eggs.
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The litten is wandering around the dump now, occasionally exploding.

Azerty

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 02:52:51 pm »

particularly powerful necromancers can animate the actual fossilized skeletons of dinosaurs. Powerful magic users of other spheres (Nature, life, maybe even power) can create living dinosaurs from fossilized dinosaur eggs.

It would be even more interesting if an intelligent being was bought back to existence, especially if they were able to bred: they could recreate their civilization!
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 06:57:15 am »

It would be even more interesting if an intelligent being was bought back to existence, especially if they were able to bred: they could recreate their civilization!

They would end up recreating basically your civilisation though. 
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 07:20:04 pm »

It would be even more interesting if an intelligent being was bought back to existence, especially if they were able to bred: they could recreate their civilization!

They would end up recreating basically your civilisation though.

Or some goblins you killed 3 ages and 10 fortresses ago.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Think of how many bones there'd be in a post apocalyptic magic cataclysm that has wiped all life off the surface under waves of fire for instance, you wouldn't be able to dig a shallow pit without having enormously dense fossil layers, then after a few hundred years really barren ones.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 07:07:43 pm by FantasticDorf »
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 07:18:50 am »

Or some goblins you killed 3 ages and 10 fortresses ago.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Think of how many bones there'd be in a post apocalyptic magic cataclysm that has wiped all life off the surface under waves of fire for instance, you wouldn't be able to dig a shallow pit without having enormously dense fossil layers, then after a few hundred years really barren ones.

You would bring goblins back but you would not bring the goblin civilisation back.  Even if you could bring back their memories and ideas, they have not built up any independent infrastructure yet allowing their culture to be functionally independent of yours, in effect what you would end up with is goblin immigrants from the past, not the original civilisation. 
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 08:20:48 am »

Or some goblins you killed 3 ages and 10 fortresses ago.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Think of how many bones there'd be in a post apocalyptic magic cataclysm that has wiped all life off the surface under waves of fire for instance, you wouldn't be able to dig a shallow pit without having enormously dense fossil layers, then after a few hundred years really barren ones.

You would bring goblins back but you would not bring the goblin civilisation back.  Even if you could bring back their memories and ideas, they have not built up any independent infrastructure yet allowing their culture to be functionally independent of yours, in effect what you would end up with is goblin immigrants from the past, not the original civilisation.

You're overthinking it, captured dwarves looking after the last goblin tower would gladly re-welcome the hate and spiteful goblins back into ranks or they'd just remember their civ ties, march onto the nearest settlement as a raider/mercenary band and convert it to the new HQ.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2019, 07:10:11 am »

You're overthinking it, captured dwarves looking after the last goblin tower would gladly re-welcome the hate and spiteful goblins back into ranks or they'd just remember their civ ties, march onto the nearest settlement as a raider/mercenary band and convert it to the new HQ.

I don't actually understand what you are saying.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2019, 04:11:37 am »

Goblins are hateful creatures with amoral values if they were raised from the dead in perfect living form they are the same beings as when they died and in either case are unlikely to join a new society as much as found a new goblin faction after first becoming refugees.

The civilization has the values reflected onto its citizens, so in that moment a new or existing unconquered goblin settlement that continued regardless of goblins dropping dead due to some magical plague or whatever just gains some migrants while non-goblins still civ aligned live there. It was one of the features Toady put into recent updates, enough refugees in a camp can just make a new settlement or find somewhere new to stay rather than assimilate into a new foriegn civilisation.

Though the new content for the villian update might encourage some with religious links to forego these restriction and settle wherever their god is preached. (but goblins don't typically have religion unless you add it yourself, some demonic cultly stuff, or future update prophet successfully manages to bring religion to them) meaning opening a specific temple after interacting with long term visitors might have a flood of goblin migrants in vanilla.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2019, 08:59:08 am »

Goblins are hateful creatures with amoral values if they were raised from the dead in perfect living form they are the same beings as when they died and in either case are unlikely to join a new society as much as found a new goblin faction after first becoming refugees.

Societies are not based upon values, values are based upon societies.  You brought them back to life as individuals, that does not bring their civilisation back to life.  Those individuals find themselves as part of your society not their own and will hence behave basically as goblin migrants to your own civilisation would behave.  The only real difference is that you have in effect time-travelling migrants, they have migrated from a past goblin society to a modern dwarf society; but technological progress is not currently in the game. 

The civilization has the values reflected onto its citizens, so in that moment a new or existing unconquered goblin settlement that continued regardless of goblins dropping dead due to some magical plague or whatever just gains some migrants while non-goblins still civ aligned live there. It was one of the features Toady put into recent updates, enough refugees in a camp can just make a new settlement or find somewhere new to stay rather than assimilate into a new foreign civilisation.

Though the new content for the villian update might encourage some with religious links to forego these restriction and settle wherever their god is preached. (but goblins don't typically have religion unless you add it yourself, some demonic cultly stuff, or future update prophet successfully manages to bring religion to them) meaning opening a specific temple after interacting with long term visitors might have a flood of goblin migrants in vanilla.

I understand goblins are presently vulnerable to religious conversion because they don't have any religion.  I think Toady One fixed or intends to fix that, a good way would be to make a person or group lacking religion resist religious conversion in the same way as a religious person resists changing religions, since that would allow Atheism to exist in the game. 
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scourge728

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2019, 10:37:09 am »

Of course, in a world where gods obviously exist.....

FantasticDorf

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Re: Unearthable Fossilized, buried and petrified remains
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2019, 02:50:56 pm »


Societies are not based upon values, values are based upon societies.  You brought them back to life as individuals, that does not bring their civilisation back to life.  Those individuals find themselves as part of your society not their own and will hence behave basically as goblin migrants to your own civilisation would behave.  The only real difference is that you have in effect time-travelling migrants, they have migrated from a past goblin society to a modern dwarf society; but technological progress is not currently in the game.

I don't feel like discussing this point will get anywhere further since it's a circular arguement and intelligent beings are 'on the table' regarding ressurection practices but doesn't really relate to things that are in the ground which is a focal point of the suggestion besides graveyards in the OP.

Its just one of those things amongst lots of other things in w.g that can die out because in applicable theory, animals of all levels of intelligence are a finite resource.
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