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[thefinn]

So I have a minecart dumping ore etc down a shaft that is on the level of my metalsmiths and smelters.

Unfortunately, children continue playing at the bottom of the shaft.

Then... of course.... *BANG*

This happens over and over.

Urist warned them not to play there, but they don't listen.

What can I do to stop this shenanigans short of warrens?

[Arcvasti]

I think you can designate certain areas as low/restricted traffic to discourage dwarves from moving through them.

[thefinn]

I think you can designate certain areas as low/restricted traffic to discourage dwarves from moving through them.

They aren't moving through, they are playing directly under where the ore comes down. Like in the 1x1 - it's not a tunnel, it's just a stockpile off to the side.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Bridges and/or doors to keep people out when they're not hauling the ore away.

If you want a Crazy Dwarven Project, you could try designing an automatic water-based conveyance device, using a strong flow to move the ore through a fortification then onto a grate. The water will flow down the grate, leaving the ore on the ground to be hauled away.

Note: you should probably install a lever to turn the flow on/off, for several reasons:

1. It might cut your FPS in half while in operation.

2. It might flood your deep-fortress.

3. It might make the outflow tile inaccessible so no one can retrieve the ore.

Also, use worthless stone in the test run or be prepared to dismantle the project to retrieve that native platinum if the flow turns out to be insufficient. Perhaps have a locked path into the drop zone for cases like that. This should probably be combined with an off-lever.

[Fleeting Frames]

If you flow the ore on a downstairs instead of a grate, you can place stockpile directly on the downstairs and thus don't need it to be hauled away (which might cause it to be hauled back up to minecart).

You can also prevent flooding danger by only using few tiles of water with a pump. Y'know, like pre-minecart era qsp designs did. Operation can be linked to a pressure plate next to the minecart on top, so that it pushes only when something has been dropped in.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

How long does a pressure plate pulse last, though? Enough for the item to fall and be pushed through the fortification? Perhaps a timer and a toggler would work if the pressure plate alone doesn't.

Edit: The water is delayed, since it needs to flow, and that takes time. The timing will probably work out.

The reason I recommended a grate was that dwarves could otherwise path into or be washed into the drainage and drown. Perhaps a downstairs with a grate below it? Since you can't place grates on u/d staircase IIRC, there'd need to be a door leading to a staircase back up to the flow level.

[Urist McVoyager]

I would just say assign the kids to a burrow. Wouldn't that work after some time?

[PatrikLundell]

I have a "kid burrow" in my fortresses. When they mature from baby they're placed into it, they're temporarily removed when mooding (because they seem to select things outside of the burrow even when matching material are inside), and release them from the burrow when the become adults. Unfortunately, civilian alerts release the brats from their burrow, and they have a habit of using that opportunity to play where they shouldn't. Ordinary burrows don't pull them away when the civ alert is lifted, so they continue to play on the corpses of the invaders they picked up new blood soaked underwear from until they get hungry/thirsty/sleepy.

Regardless, drop shafts should not be unprotected. If used, they should have a drawbridge to drop things on top of to be released down to the stockpile only when the access door is locked, or a more elaborate way to move the goods away from the shaft (a minecart track works fine: have the loaded cart drop onto a ramp with a carved track and then roll to a track stop where it dumps the stuff, with the track blocked from dwarven access (a statue is said to work, but I've yet to try that). Of course, the cart would then need to be returned to the top in some fashion.
Water movement should work as well, of course.

[thefinn]

How long does a pressure plate pulse last, though? Enough for the item to fall and be pushed through the fortification? Perhaps a timer and a toggler would work if the pressure plate alone doesn't.

Edit: The water is delayed, since it needs to flow, and that takes time. The timing will probably work out.

The reason I recommended a grate was that dwarves could otherwise path into or be washed into the drainage and drown. Perhaps a downstairs with a grate below it? Since you can't place grates on u/d staircase IIRC, there'd need to be a door leading to a staircase back up to the flow level.

I tried last week to create a monster on pressure plate > open bridge to allow water to fall > pressure plate > closes main drawbridge and twice FB's got through this system. Very annoying - it didn't kill anyone, just annoyed me.

[PatrikLundell]

How long does a pressure plate pulse last, though? Enough for the item to fall and be pushed through the fortification? Perhaps a timer and a toggler would work if the pressure plate alone doesn't.

Edit: The water is delayed, since it needs to flow, and that takes time. The timing will probably work out.

The reason I recommended a grate was that dwarves could otherwise path into or be washed into the drainage and drown. Perhaps a downstairs with a grate below it? Since you can't place grates on u/d staircase IIRC, there'd need to be a door leading to a staircase back up to the flow level.

I tried last week to create a monster on pressure plate > open bridge to allow water to fall > pressure plate > closes main drawbridge and twice FB's got through this system. Very annoying - it didn't kill anyone, just annoyed me.

And it wasn't the FB that was supposed to trigger the pressure plate, was it? Trap avoiders don't trigger pressure plates...

[thefinn]

Ah... I thought it might've been something like that...

In any case I burrowed the children and turned announcements on for the "Someone has grown up" event to pause, then I will unburrow as needed.

[Saiko Kila]

Why don't keep children under lock and key?

I don't care in my current fortress, but cared in one I build in 0.40.23. I had a part of the fort specifically built for children, and off-limits to anyone else. They had their bedroom, swimming pool, living room, danger room, mead hall and playground - everything a sensible child could require. There was also a buffer zone with stockpiles for food and drinks, which also had a hole in the roof, which allowed to air-drop some other things, like toys or clothes, if urgently needed. The buffer zone was locked from the children side and unlocked from the adult side for resupplying, and also for releasing adults and reception of new batch of children. There were two separate access corridors with multiple door, to facilitate it better.

It worked well, and also protected them from outside and inside threats, like vampires, werebeasts or goblins. I'm not sure how well it would work in current version (danger rooms were less deadly then, so I wouldn't build one now), but it is doable to separate children from adults. I noticed that children in my current fort generally keep to themselves (for example child "poets" often perform for other children, outside of official meeting zones, while adults keep to taverns), so probably it could be good. Only thing they would lack is interaction with parents, but who does that anyway.

[Fleeting Frames]

@Dozebôm Lolumzalìs:  About ~110 steps, + however long pump keeps pumping after power is cut.

Item fall time is equal to minecart's on straight acceleration, so the items aren't going to arrive after that unless the map is 400z tall or something.

Also, you can place grates on U/D stairs, you can't place them on stockpiles. Regardless, while dwarves can't be washed downwards (though they can lose their footing), only sideways, and since there's empty room directly below downstair water falls straight down instead of moving dwarf along.

@PatrikLundell:

I've had success with mooding burrows, even with other materials closer, by setting burrows to restrict workshops inside. Does that fail for you?

Problem with bridge at bottom of drop shaft is that it doesn't move the kids (I have usually moved them into their burrow with civilian alert, then remove the alert. Then can lock the doors if there's more general civilian alert).

@thefinn: Might also want to use fast buildings for such setups in general, since bridges have additional 100 step delay. (For FBs in particular, can use floodgates to hold water, with second distraction so they don't just walk out.)

[thefinn]

Why don't keep children under lock and key?

I don't care in my current fortress, but cared in one I build in 0.40.23. I had a part of the fort specifically built for children, and off-limits to anyone else. They had their bedroom, swimming pool, living room, danger room, mead hall and playground - everything a sensible child could require. There was also a buffer zone with stockpiles for food and drinks, which also had a hole in the roof, which allowed to air-drop some other things, like toys or clothes, if urgently needed. The buffer zone was locked from the children side and unlocked from the adult side for resupplying, and also for releasing adults and reception of new batch of children. There were two separate access corridors with multiple door, to facilitate it better.

It worked well, and also protected them from outside and inside threats, like vampires, werebeasts or goblins. I'm not sure how well it would work in current version (danger rooms were less deadly then, so I wouldn't build one now), but it is doable to separate children from adults. I noticed that children in my current fort generally keep to themselves (for example child "poets" often perform for other children, outside of official meeting zones, while adults keep to taverns), so probably it could be good. Only thing they would lack is interaction with parents, but who does that anyway.

I have the warrens right now, and am working on some other stuff, but I like this idea. I might give this a go once I'm done with the current complexities

[PatrikLundell]

@Fleeting Frames:
I've never used workshop burrows: My kids are in a "normal" burrow that covers all areas they're supposed to be at, plus some that might be frequented if mooding. However, I've had buggers just sit in the workshop to get wood even when wood is available inside their burrow, so the buggers apparently selected something outside of it. I wouldn't exactly be surprised if it was the same mechanism that causes cancellation spam on civilian alerts (and normal burrows, for that matter), only that they don't cancel.
A workshop burrow defeats the purpose of a kid burrow: if I'm going to change things when a kid moods I can just release the brat temporarily, rather than set up and then remove a workshop burrow. Obviously, if you're trying to guide mooding you'll have to use methods to do so. I don't care what kids make, though, as it's usually junk anyway.