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Author Topic: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT  (Read 3061 times)

Martin

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Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« on: September 07, 2018, 02:14:35 am »


Gather around children, I want to tell you a story.


In the olden days, before stairs were invented and dwarves believed the world was flat, we dug our homes into the mountain, careful to not dig too deep out of fear something terrible might be unleashed. We encouraged our children to learn a task well, and maybe they'd become famous for that task, but time was always short because the world was a dangerous place. But one year we sent a number of our young dwarves out into the world to start a new mountainhome, and one among them, Morul Cattenmat, wondered if he focused on learning everything the dwarves knew, if he could hold those dangers at bay. He became the most learned and interesting of our kind, and he indeed was able to hold those dangers at bay. But Morul eventually left the mountainhome and it's time we found a successor. Much has changed since then. We invented wheelbarrows and discovered that goats were easier to milk than maggots. We domesticated bees, learned to document our knowledge, and play music. And new dangers have arrived, and we must again prepare to face them. So today we send off a another band of our young people, along with the namesake of our great hero, Morul Nicolgomath, to found a new mountainhome and once again learn all that our kind knows.


They have recently embarked and are to send us reports of their progress. When we receive word I will call you all together to hear their stories for some day we may send you off on an expedition of your own.

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NRDL

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2018, 02:29:16 am »

PT motherfucking W
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Imic

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2018, 03:08:24 am »

Yeeesssss...
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Basil ii

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2018, 08:04:26 am »

did morul have any children?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 08:13:02 am by Basil ii »
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Martin

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2018, 10:49:29 am »

did morul have any children?


No. He had a wife, who thankfully didn't die during the fortress tantrum spiral (she was injured though) but they never had kids. Some of that was due to the low children cap I had set, but even after the spiral when most of the children were sacrificed to the bottomless pit and the fort was under the cap, they still didn't even though they may have been the only surviving married couple. That bit of science was never really answered but my theory was that because Morul pretty much never hit idle status in almost 50 years, and things like parties weren't really implemented yet, whatever trigger was needed for pregnancy simply didn't hit. I always wanted him to have kids, so I'm hoping for a better outcome here. Another possibility is that his mood was always ecstatic, even when ⅔ of the fortress died and his wife was wounded. Those are the only real constants I can think of that might have blocked the trigger firing.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2018, 11:03:48 am »

Spiritually, Spriggansly, yes: Korgoth.

On that note; the scholarly skills are going to take a while. The first subject? Ok, maybe start at proficient, and perhaps in a decade and half, perhaps longer, one will be legendary. The second scholarly skill? Not going to start pondering it on their own; discussion with a scholar of that skill might work at half the speed. Lets call it 45 years for each additional one. Mörul would have to be a necromancer and/or vampire, and the fortress would have to run sealed-off and lean for a while (at 400 fps could pass bit over 85 years every 24h).

Strand Extracting: I don't quite recall if it yielded that much, but at 30 exp per strand you need 1050 candy for legendary+6 status(-6 levels for rust); that might be doable in 4 veins (and with adjusting worldgen bottom to be fatter, you can have four digits candy per vein).

Musical Skills: I haven't paid attention enough, but if dwarves focus on only their preferred musical skills only way to train the ones they won't use would be in adventure mode.

Animal Caretaker: Does feeding animals even yield any exp in this?

Social skills: If personality isn't right, Mörul will never be Liar or the like. Also, not sure consoling increases consoler?

Blowgunner: Need to ensure you embark on group of subterranean animal people, then steal theirs, and use repeating doors/boltfall towers to reuse the ammunition until user is legendary.

Climber: Like blowgunner, going to need bit of setup; most setups use water, though I've seen a miner frantically climb out from 1x1 pit too, which might be useful if top walls are smooth.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 11:05:32 am by Fleeting Frames »
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Martin

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2018, 12:13:32 pm »

Spiritually, Spriggansly, yes: Korgoth.

Ah, missed that thread. Shame he didn't finish - it is a real slog and takes a massive amount of patience. There's a reason people don't do this...

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On that note; the scholarly skills are going to take a while. The first subject? Ok, maybe start at proficient, and perhaps in a decade and half, perhaps longer, one will be legendary. The second scholarly skill? Not going to start pondering it on their own; discussion with a scholar of that skill might work at half the speed. Lets call it 45 years for each additional one. Mörul would have to be a necromancer and/or vampire, and the fortress would have to run sealed-off and lean for a while (at 400 fps could pass bit over 85 years every 24h).

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. But, hey, it's science. Perhaps what I need to do is start his companions pondering in these areas so that when Morul gets there, they're already legendary+n and can tow him along. Worth a go at least.

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Strand Extracting: I don't quite recall if it yielded that much, but at 30 exp per strand you need 1050 candy for legendary+6 status(-6 levels for rust); that might be doable in 4 veins (and with adjusting worldgen bottom to be fatter, you can have four digits candy per vein).

Yeah, I don't mind simply hacking more material in to do this. Last time I was modifying the raws of other materials to give this skill. Didn't speed the process up any, so maybe we invent a mechanism whereby they import raw candy. Not a problem.

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Musical Skills: I haven't paid attention enough, but if dwarves focus on only their preferred musical skills only way to train the ones they won't use would be in adventure mode.

We'll find out! Maybe this is a place where we do need to hack the game a bit to overcome what seems like an arbitrary limitation. If he hits legendary in keyboard and refuses to pick up another instrument, maybe we need to clear keyboard out so he'll tackle the next one and then when the music is done we add them back in. Again, doesn't speed things up, just overcomes an odd limitation in the game. We'll try other things along the way - forbidding all keyboards and whatever.

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Animal Caretaker: Does feeding animals even yield any exp in this?

Is that a thing now? Then I had to assign all the dogs to him and let them all get injured when he went out to fight the orcs. I'm hoping this one is a bit more direct to work on now.

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Social skills: If personality isn't right, Mörul will never be Liar or the like. Also, not sure consoling increases consoler?


Had the same problem them. It wasn't really possible to hack their personality, but I think I can do that now. I may not get all of them, but we'll try.

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Blowgunner: Need to ensure you embark on group of subterranean animal people, then steal theirs, and use repeating doors/boltfall towers to reuse the ammunition until user is legendary.


I don't see why some caravan can't just so happen to have a blowgun and ammo on it. I'm a capitalist. Seems to me if Morul puts out word that he'll pay good money for blowgun ammo, the trading world will find a way to bring it to him.

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Climber: Like blowgunner, going to need bit of setup; most setups use water, though I've seen a miner frantically climb out from 1x1 pit too, which might be useful if top walls are smooth.


Yeah, swimmer was a PITA last time for the same reason. One benefit of this is that I learn how to develop reliable/efficient ways to solve each of these problems. Hopefully I won't have to pit him a million times. There were some then we couldn't do - thrower, etc. It's just how it is. Can we find a way to do knapper? Do we add a reasonable reaction for that? Seems like a straightforward enough skill to do in a workshop. Those adventure mode only skills are tricky, or do we decide to take Morul out into the world after the fortress skills are done and have him sharpen knives and climb trees for a while? Maybe. This is going to be a long journey. We'll figure it out as we go.

Martin

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2018, 03:36:23 pm »


Report from Mörul Nicolgomath, 8th Slate 88.


We have arrived safely at the new mountainhome, a remarkable but unusual place that has left the others a bit concerned, but which I believe will suit us well. We followed the great river to a point where it met another and resulted in a waterfall of immense height. Scouting the edge we realized that a large volcano shares this location and that sign of good fortune that served Lashedwines so well may serve us as well. We descended from the falls into the valley below, surrounded by mountains on three sides, with a sheer cliff face at our disposal. The great river is teeming with shad and trout and salmon, and there are eagles and turkeys about as well. Plenty of trees - bayberry, and pear, and apricot so that we can cook as the humans do. The only bit of bad news is that we used the frozen river to cross to a more favorable position in the valley and upon crossing realized the ice was soon to give way. In our haste to salvage the goods and livestock we brought with us, we left the booze to last and it was lost to the river. Our toast to the new mountainhome would have to wait. I've spent the first few days gathering plants and I am taking a short break from building a still to write this, but tonight we shall toast and celebrate our new home, and tomorrow I shall strike the earth.


In some ways I feel unprepared to be here. I've focused so much on learning dwarven culture and traditions, learning how to lead an expedition of young dwarves and start a mountainhome, and yet I've never felled a tree or mined a stone. I carry with me tomes written by the scholars at Bukètkoshosh so I feel knowledgable of the world yet inexperienced. But that is why I'm here, isn't it? We will send regular word back. It may not always be by my hand given the work ahead of us, but you will hear our story.



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NJW2000

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 03:55:08 pm »

PTW
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 04:16:18 pm »

If you want to take him out to the world, you're going to need to start him as adventurer. Though there are some things you can do with companions (I'm not clear what the limits are), your adventuring character won't be able to recruit someone more awesome than them.

Dwarves with animal caretaker enabled feed hungry grazers on chain - mostly useless, unless you're trying to raise elk birds or elephants on a glacier. I don't know if there's a way to raise them with injured pets? Dwarves don't treat them in vanilla, so what action boosts the skill?

Personally, my flavour of vanilla purism is looking for a vanilla, even exploity, way to do something before considering modding or hacking alternatives. A weapon that shoots lies or workshop that boosts user in desired arbitrary skill are neat little modding projects, but they don't really say much about the skill they use if you have renamed legendary marksdwarf/carpenter.

But you do you; it is clear that asking questions like "reliable and efficient way to obtain a legendary butcher" misses the most common point (higher-quality and faster jobs) for having a skill leveled to legendary. There's near no benefit to better purely scholarly skills, either.

(Honestly, I think withouts mods or hacks Swimmer is the easiest to train skill out of those I mentioned - I'm fond of training whole fort via military alert into 1x1 burrow that then gets water added in - so if training Swimmer is too finicky just forget training the rest of those skills the expected way.)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 04:20:17 pm by Fleeting Frames »
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NJW2000

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 04:25:00 pm »

Yeah, starting with him as an adventurer would let you use the demigod start, as well as letting you train some skills otherwise untrainable like thrower. Furthermore, you could always unretire him if unforeseen circumstances necessitated it.

Then again, it's perfectly understandable if you want to keep to Dwarf FORTRESS.
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Martin

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 04:35:38 pm »

If you want to take him out to the world, you're going to need to start him as adventurer. Though there are some things you can do with companions (I'm not clear what the limits are), your adventuring character won't be able to recruit someone more awesome than them.

Dwarves with animal caretaker enabled feed hungry grazers on chain - mostly useless, unless you're trying to raise elk birds or elephants on a glacier. I don't know if there's a way to raise them with injured pets? Dwarves don't treat them in vanilla, so what action boosts the skill?

Personally, my flavour of vanilla purism is looking for a vanilla, even exploity, way to do something before considering modding or hacking alternatives. A weapon that shoots lies or workshop that boosts user in desired arbitrary skill are neat little modding projects, but they don't really say much about the skill they use if you have renamed legendary marksdwarf/carpenter.

But you do you; it is clear that asking questions like "reliable and efficient way to obtain a legendary butcher" misses the most common point (higher-quality and faster jobs) for having a skill leveled to legendary. There's near no benefit to better purely scholarly skills, either.

(Honestly, I think withouts mods or hacks Swimmer is the easiest to train skill out of those I mentioned - I'm fond of training whole fort via military alert into 1x1 burrow that then gets water added in - so if training Swimmer is too finicky just forget training the rest of those skills the expected way.)


Yeah, I agree overall. I try to do things as vanilla as possible - this is a science effort after all. But there are some arbitrary restrictions to get around. Why can we only dissect certain animals? Expanding that to similar ones seems reasonable. We can't make a blowgun, so why can't we just buy one? So, I may spawn a blowgun during a trading encounter.


Some of the medical skills will be tough. I need to decide between deliberately harming my dwarves to give him someone to skill on, or finding a reasonable alternative. Now, that problem may solve itself through ambushes, we'll see, but a workshop that takes a dead gobbo as a reagent and produces a small amount of suturing isn't unreasonable to me. For training lies, I'm inclined to just make a temporary change to his personality via dfhack to allow that to skill up, and then merge the result.

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 06:04:40 pm »

You can make a blowgun (via a bowyer mood). The problem, as the Swiss grasp, is ammo, which you can only loot from cavern civ (though if your embark doesn't have any, an adventurer could potentially hunt down a group and bring some on site).

You can spam diagonosis requests on a dwarf by having no crutches in fort but an injury that requires one. (1 each day, as I showed in latest Solstice Chronicle).

I've read that a dwarf may become legendary surgeon when operating for four months on 1 dwarf caught in the cloud of skin rotting fb.

Other three, I'm not sure how to go about limiting sacrifices for.

Martin

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 08:32:30 pm »

Report from Sibrek Ulabkubuk, 18th Galena 88.


Morul turned over expedition leader duties to me so he could focus on his work. Morul has dug out a rudimentary shelter and should have beds installed soon, and then will turn back to food and booze production as we routinely run out. We have named this place Zatthudasmel. He tilled a pair of small farm plots and planted plump helmets and sweet pods. The rest of the fortress has 3 main jobs. Right now hauling the things so that Morul need not, which we take turns doing, and military training because we know danger is coming and we are not up to handling any kind of serious threat. Fortunately, nobody knows we're here - we've hardly left a mark on this place so far, but we can hear trade caravans passing near our location and soon we'll want to trade with one. Word will spread and danger will come. Once we get a bit more settled we'll return to our scholarly work as well. It was nice to get away from our studies in the mountainhome, but we are getting restless hoping to return to it.


We've been discussing how we want to develop this land, and defending it will be very challenging. Being low in the valley means that threats will come from above, and the advantage of height is extremely powerful. Only Morul seemed confident we could do this, so I hope he is correct. Much of this goes against what our elders have taught us: "Dig deep into the earth, force them to move in the dark, through dwarven traps and into dangers they are unfamiliar with." Morul has studied the humans and elves as much as the dwarves, and they seem to thrive above ground, so it is possible, but unfamiliar. He tells a tale written by the humans of scholars who live high up in their mountains and spend their time between studying and military training. It sounds very much as we've been trained to do - and I think this is what Morul intends to build here - a great mountainhome, only partially in the mountain, a city of scholars and warriors. We like the sound of that. Only Morul is excited about chopping trees.


We will be in contact again next season. There is much to do before then.


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Martin

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Re: Presenting Mörul Nicolgomath: KOAT
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2018, 01:41:09 am »

Report from Mosus Zegkadol, 9th Felsite 89.


We tried to send word but the winters here are very harsh. Parts of the river barely melt in summer, but we are all well. Sibrek suggested I write because Monom and I got married! We're still so excited. The mountainhome is coming along slowly. Morul has been running all over and steadily improving life for us. He's really excited to finally be able to put his studies to use. He's getting better at so many things and the practice is really making him faster at doing the work. Every time he builds something he remarks about how he'll be able to do it better. Food and booze are a bit scarce still, but that's to be expected after winter. The spring crops are planted, and the fortress is expanding.


We've been spending our time training and patrolling the area. The ruggedness of the terrain is going to make combat difficult but we're forming plans on how to deal with that. I think the plans are really starting to become solid, and Moruls digging is increasingly confident, so we expect big things this year. In the fall a trade caravan came very near the fortress but we avoided trading. A dwarven diplomat stopped by to see how we were doing but we asked him to keep our existence quiet for now as we still don't want to attract attention. We'll be ready for trade in the fall so send some wagons to us then.


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