You could also do the opposite: cherry-pick false positives. Are you sure that is not what you are doing?
There really isn't any symmetry here. They aren't false positives until you prove they are, but producing negative results in studies is entirely compatible with a positive reality, which means that you cannot use negative results elsewhere to prove that positive results are false. You have to demonstrate why, given the methodology used a false positive would be produced; in effect
"proving things is hard, disproving things is harder".
The reason is that if there are two things that are connected, it is effortless to fail to detect a connection between the two things, you just have to make a study that is so flawed that it will always fail to detect anything. You can produce as many of these false negative studies as you like because you just replicate the flaws of your original study forever.
I think much of this discussion kind of misses the point. It may be more constructive to think about the specific forms discrimination could take in the game, and consider their merits/demerits on a case-by-case basis. Toady has already ruled out racism (though what that means may be open to interpretation), so debate over that is purely academic.
Since this thread is about sex discrimination, perhaps we could keep it to that?
Also note positive discrimination is also possible. It may not be that men are banned from being priests of the goddess of bismuth, but rather only women are permitted due to some theological belief specific to that deity. There could be bans on breastfeeding women undergoing active military service to protect their babies (if you're reading Toady, please implement this).
There could also be differences in the baseline stat distribution between genders, which could lead to emergent discrimination (though that is unlikely). A more detailed implementation of genetics could actually produce discrimination naturally post economy, as low attribute individuals (of either gender) would settle at the bottom of society.
They would not settle at the bottom of society if there *is* no bottom of society. Sex discrimination is really a subset of discrimination in general and fairly inseparable.
I'm just passing through, here, but a couple of things jumped out at me.
Put aside, for the moment, the fact that "dramatic social revolution" is not currently implemented in DF, because of course it isn't. What is implemented, however, are quests to stop a ruthless gang of bandits, or put together a war party to go slay the dragon that's been terrorizing the countryside. Do you not save dozens, even hundreds of lives in this way? Do you not dramatically alter the future of the whole region? Do you not become a hero, whom other men will follow? Does this not satisfy the Great Man Theory? And what's all this having to be in the right place at the right time? Was Martin Luther able to shatter all of Christendom just because he happened to post his theses precisely when Europe was already at the tipping point anyway? Of course not, he sparked a revolution because his ideas were different, and a foreign adventurer character is very well positioned to point out what he sees as glaring flaws in a society, particularly if he's riding the popularity wave of just having saved a town or two. Your little quibble over "the moment he arrives" is pure misdirection--the only reason the player can't do that sort of quest is because that sort of quest simply hasn't been written (yet), and you know it. Face the facts and argue correctly.
Bandits and dragons fit into the category of what I would call anti-social oppression. I was talking about societal oppression (oppression approved of by society), not anti-social oppression. A great man can fairly easily deal with anti-social oppression because society is prepared to give him the means to do so and also the rewards/motivation. Societal oppression on the other hand is basically the situation backwards, *if* you challenge the oppression then your 'greatness license' will be revoked.
Many people like Martin Luther (people with different ideas) came before him and ended up being roasted over a fire. Martin Luther however turned up at exactly the point when the authority of the Catholic Church had basically already collapsed, so he avoided the fiery fate that others like him had faced. There is a slow process of decay of the Church's authority, by which people gradually start passively ignoring it's authority and Martin Luther's success is the symptom not the cause of this. Other heretics over the millennia earlier had not been so lucky as to arrive at the right time.
People trying to claim video-game violence causes real-world violence always seem to gloss over the innumerable atrocities throughout all history, and in places/societies that simply have no exposure to such games. And as for your report that violent crime is on the rise--if, as you imply, it is prompted by video games, then which game? Isn't the Grand Theft Auto craze long past its peak, at least until its next installment? Personally, I find it much more likely that this surge of real-world nastiness is caused by . . . real-world nastiness, what with the right-wing nationalism, intolerance, and violent rhetoric on the upswing again in Britain & other parts of Europe, Brazil, and of course America. People don't hurt, kill, or oppress people because someone on their screen tells them it's okay--they do it because they already had a latent desire to do so, and someone in their own culture shows them that it's okay. Blaming video games/movies/etc. for society's various ills has never made sense.
You talk about reasoning correctly and then you come up with this! There is no glossing over anything because it does not follow that if one thing promotes something that other things do not also promote the same thing! Total non sequitor by any standards.
You talk about how culture shows them that it's okay, but then you forget that computer games *are* part of that culture. We do not know that the current rise in
"right-wing nationalism, intolerance, and violent rhetoric" which in effect runs directly against the general trend since WW2 ending, is not simply that the video games which promote such themes are 'bearing fruit' as it were. The culture drew a division between them and the rest of culture, so those things were able to 'hide' in video games even as they were gradually driven out of the rest of culture.
Then rather like Martin Luther, as soon as the right moment comes they just 'emerge' from their virtual hiding place and take the real world by storm. But if society had censored it's video games and controlled the ideology of their content, perhaps they would not have been strong enough to emerge?
Wow, why am I bothering even engaging when you fundamentally have no idea what Dwarf Fortress actually aims to be?
Plus, that's not what I was arguing anyway, but trying to prop up what will inevitably be ignored to beat on another strawman is another waste of my time.
Indeed, I am unsure as to whether the devs even know what they want Dwarf Fortress to actually be.
I said I don't know. You made a claim. I said why I had doubts about that claim. You tried to address my doubts with some data. Both of those articles link to the same data. Attached to that data is this disclaimer:
For many types of offence, police recorded crime figures do not provide a reliable measure of trends in crime, but they do provide a good measure of the crime-related demand on the police.
(emphasis mine)
You are trying to use this data to make a claim about the trends in crime. The publishers of this data specifically say you cannot do this. You have not sufficiently addressed my doubts about your claim.
Since I was only arguing against the argument that the statistical decline in violent crime proves that video games do not replicate themselves in reality it does not matter if police crime statistics are unreliable, as that is just another argument I could have made originally.
If you think violence is bad, and you think video games that depict violence cause violence, isn't it your moral obligation to start a suggestion thread for removing all violence from Dwarf Fortress? If you don't you are complicit in causing violence.
If this is your issue with this suggestion, I doubt I'd be able to change your mind here, so once again I'm going to just stop. If you really want to continue, DM me or start that new suggestion thread.
This whole situation is rather like a whole bunch of industrial and fossil fuels tycoons sitting in a club and one of them mentions global warming. The other tycoons say to him,
"If global warming was real then we would have to do something" therefore you should keep your mouth shut.
If I as the player steal everyone's food and they starve to death that is that violence? Stopping the player then from being violent if a pretty difficult task to pull off and if we can't stop the player from being violent, the rest of the world has to be capable of violence in order to stop the player.