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[TricMagic]

Well, web is one of my suspicions. Given the fact that my vote was taken away though, I think that points toward Caz more than anything else. Or the Persus/Teneb duo trying to throw Caz under.

Can everyone please start talking so we don't end up voting at the last second?

[heydude6]

Hua... One of those. Was I on to something, or are you just modulating. Can't apply pressure so...


I Believe In You!{From Caz's post, stealing this.}

Seems like a WIFOM

Initially, you can assume that scum think Tric’s vote against caz is a threat and they want to silence him.
On the other hand, it’s fucking Tric and no sane person could possibly see him as a threat so it probably isn’t some attempt to silence Caz.

On the other other hand, they might be aware of that second point so they do decide to silence Tric anyway to reduce the amount of votes on Caz, cause now there are only two votes on him and it would be relatively easy to quickly prop up another candidate to take the lynch for him.

Either way, whoever removed that vote is obviously scum, cause if a town wanted Caz not to get lynched they would have just argued his case in public rather than resort to such underhanded tactics. Inspectors, take note.

[TricMagic]

• Web, don't compare me to TBF, I actually have a case or two built up.
• Caz, actually hunt someone in the day left. You've wasted enough time.
• Persus and Teneb, come out of your private chat and start hunting each other. Or Don't, you do seem to be protecting each other for some reason.
• IcyTea, please show up. We kinda need it now with 1 less vote in circulation.
• Sheldon, please hunt down that duo, or do you have a length restriction to your posts.
• TheBiggerFish, be the Bigger Fish and make a case, since web thinks we're alike for some reason. Pick apart someone's posts. The Duo is a good option to show your stuff.

ninja Dude, also why a few other aren't in this, they did contribute a good bit.

[Persus13]

I need to read through the thread again. Be back later. Also, I just got a message from the mod saying Sheldon hasn't posted in the Useless QT, whatever that's worth.

But look who shows up. It's Caz! Curses!:

TricMagic

Persus, a better vote than anything else in info gained.

explain yourself.

Now whether it's hate, or he's helping his mate.
Is not the main subject, I'm here to debate.

But out of all the people who threw in a vote
he goes after the one who can't stay afloat

And rather than go after a lead who's a bit more concrete
He attacks someone else, just cause he has the skills of a NEET

Of course, going after someone weak is not his only crime.
He defends persus with arguments, that are weak like last time.

(i lost which post i was replying to so this just became a general rant)

Thinking that webadict is town because they're active is the same lazy logic as thinking persus is scum because they have a rolename about lurking. You know we pick our rolenames but not our alignment, right? I dunno why that would make Persus more likely to be scum, infact since lurking is a sorta scummy behaviour and he has a legitimate excuse for it, "powers gained by lurking" I'd say that's a point towards him being town. (a very small point, but a point nonetheless) also it's been awhile since I played with persus but I think lurking is his... thing.

This thing is quite the dense shopping cart
so let's look at the pieces, as I rip it apart

Thinking that webadict is town because they're active is the same lazy logic as thinking persus is scum because they have a rolename about lurking. You know we pick our rolenames but not our alignment, right?

No complaints, here you're completely correct.
I'd buy you beer, but the rest is kind of wrecked.

since lurking is a sorta scummy behaviour and he has a legitimate excuse for it, "powers gained by lurking" I'd say that's a point towards him being town. (a very small point, but a point nonetheless)

You take the good will, that you earned at the start.
and contradict it with an argument that's not very smart.
Regardless if he is mafia, or if he is town
he's incentivized to lurk either way to bring the opposing team down

In truth, you're right, rolenames do not indicate alignment.
yet you stray from neutral, and give him a remotely positive assignment.

What you don't understand, when we casted those votes in our hand
is that we don't do it cause we think he's scum.
We try to make him post, cause lurking is dumb.

When people were attacking me for lurking when I happened to be out of town, Caz was the only person to notice that I had actually said I was going out of town in my initial post. So if you're going to argue that he's scum, you'll have a much better time convincing me by not using posts where he points out that attacks on me for "lurking" (which I was not, look up the definition) are dumb. Or by not pointing out where Caz pressure voted someone else, who had decided that voting an absent player that was already being voted by two people was a better use of their time than scumhunting, for that matter.

And Disclaimer (for the 50th time): My role has 0 incentives for me to lurk.

Hua... One of those. Was I on to something, or are you just modulating. Can't apply pressure so...


I Believe In You!{From Caz's post, stealing this.}

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76609.msg1949470#msg1949470 Hope you enjoy reading this.
Basially. Mafia takes up a lot of time. Checking the forums on a whim takes like two seconds. Plus folks might have pages open while doing something else. The long and short of it is that whether someone's signed in or not doesn't mean a lot.
50,000 Ninjas:

Well, web is one of my suspicions. Given the fact that my vote was taken away though, I think that points toward Caz more than anything else. Or the Persus/Teneb duo trying to throw Caz under.

Can everyone please start talking so we don't end up voting at the last second?

Web's response in thread seems to imply it wasn't him. I think I know who it is (I just PMed a question to Fallacy and I'm waiting to hear back from him), and I'll definitely be voting them if they don't show up and claim.

Seems like a WIFOM

Initially, you can assume that scum think Tric’s vote against caz is a threat and they want to silence him.
On the other hand, it’s fucking Tric and no sane person could possibly see him as a threat so it probably isn’t some attempt to silence Caz.

On the other other hand, they might be aware of that second point so they do decide to silence Tric anyway to reduce the amount of votes on Caz, cause now there are only two votes on him and it would be relatively easy to quickly prop up another candidate to take the lynch for him.

Either way, whoever removed that vote is obviously scum, cause if a town wanted Caz not to get lynched they would have just argued his case in public rather than resort to such underhanded tactics. Inspectors, take note.

If you were town and had a vote removal ability, how would you use it?

• Web, don't compare me to TBF, I actually have a case or two built up.
• Caz, actually hunt someone in the day left. You've wasted enough time.
• Persus and Teneb, come out of your private chat and start hunting each other. Or Don't, you do seem to be protecting each other for some reason.
• IcyTea, please show up. We kinda need it now with 1 less vote in circulation.
• Sheldon, please hunt down that duo, or do you have a length restriction to your posts.
• TheBiggerFish, be the Bigger Fish and make a case, since web thinks we're alike for some reason. Pick apart someone's posts. The Duo is a good option to show your stuff.

ninja Dude, also why a few other aren't in this, they did contribute a good bit.

The last post from IcyTea said they were busy this weekend. Give people with RL stuff time.
Also, I'd love to hear Sheldon's thoughts on who else he has cases on, because I'd actually find that useful information.

[TheBiggerFish]

I am kind of suspicious of Deus Asmoth.  Since I keep forgetting they're in the game until they post.  That smells of lurk.

And an alternative theory: whoever stole Tric's vote thinks that they're too likely to do things that are anti-Town to be left with it.

I have nothing to do with that, for the record - it's just what came to mind.

[webadict]

Can we seriously get a vote count? I have been searching the thread for them for around 20 minutes.

[Persus13]

I would also really appreciate more timely votecounts from the mod. I think we've had maybe 5 all game, and I'm used to one every 24 hours or so on weekdays, and at least one on weekends.

[webadict]

Well, web is one of my suspicions. Given the fact that my vote was taken away though, I think that points toward Caz more than anything else. Or the Persus/Teneb duo trying to throw Caz under.

Can everyone please start talking so we don't end up voting at the last second?

If I were scum, I probably would've hammered you by now. Probably. I mean, you're at the bottom of the list. What would I have cared?

I want you to think like me for a second. Why wouldn't I vote you as scum? You're basically the same as Maximum Spin yesterday. If you are Town, you're being stupid.

Like, please use your head. I do plenty of things as scum. But, because of that, I brazenly do what I want. Unless your goal is to somehow goad me into voting you, in which case, you are dumber than you look, because I will vote you if you want me to.

If I were scum, I gain NOTHING by not voting you. If you're Town, I can go "whoopsies!" and if you're scum, I just look better. If anything, it makes me look scummier for not taking a side in the Caz vs. TricMagic debate. I think both of those votes are stupid, but obviously, you're stuck in some sort of "me vs. Caz mentality" instead of the not braindead option of neither. It's very possible that one or both of you are scum. But, you're trying to keep yourself by making the bandwagon jump on Caz instead, which only serves to make you look guilty by comparison.

• Web, don't compare me to TBF, I actually have a case or two built up.
• Caz, actually hunt someone in the day left. You've wasted enough time.
• Persus and Teneb, come out of your private chat and start hunting each other. Or Don't, you do seem to be protecting each other for some reason.
• IcyTea, please show up. We kinda need it now with 1 less vote in circulation.
• Sheldon, please hunt down that duo, or do you have a length restriction to your posts.
• TheBiggerFish, be the Bigger Fish and make a case, since web thinks we're alike for some reason. Pick apart someone's posts. The Duo is a good option to show your stuff.

ninja Dude, also why a few other aren't in this, they did contribute a good bit.

Cool. Congrats on having a case or two built up. Build one on me if you're gonna call me scum, and I'll stop comparing you two. God, I get called scum by virtually everyone and no one wants to build a case because it's probably easier not to and just espouse the same line everyone else rambles off. I want you to pretend I'm scum in every single post and figure out what my motives are. If, by the end, you say my motives are "look Town," then you failed.

I did NOT change my mind about Deus Asmoth. Deus Asmoth has contributed almost nothing to the game. He has around 12-15 posts in the game, and all of them are short and unassuming. He has been relatively quiet, and his play seems similar to the last game he played as scum, even if it was a bastard mod.

It's hard to pinpoint exactly what he's doing that's scummy because he has so little content. I am absolutely in favor of lynching him. He has made very few accusations, and those he has were incredibly passive.

Is this supposed to be the decent case you promised, or are you just trying to repeat yourself enough times that people start to believe you?

I was going to, but I noticed all of your posts were garbage. Would you like me to waste my time quoting every one of your posts and say "Look how little he does here?" It'd be even easier to prove if I had a vote count, where I can see if you're still voting TBF or if you've switched, since we get vote counts every 5 days.

It's hard NOT to think you're not passive when all you do is reply to my accusations and vote without caring about anything else. I mean, did you change your vote at all Yesterday? Have you changed your vote Today? I don't think you have. It's just so incredibly lazy sounding. Like, you're afraid to change your mind. New evidence pops up constantly. It's gonna happen.

I can start just quoting posts of yours instead, if you'd like though.

[Deus Asmoth]

TBF: I'm sorry to hear about your memory problems, but I'm not actually responsible for them. Try fish oil, I hear that's good for your memory.

webadict:

I did NOT change my mind about Deus Asmoth. Deus Asmoth has contributed almost nothing to the game. He has around 12-15 posts in the game, and all of them are short and unassuming. He has been relatively quiet, and his play seems similar to the last game he played as scum, even if it was a bastard mod.

It's hard to pinpoint exactly what he's doing that's scummy because he has so little content. I am absolutely in favor of lynching him. He has made very few accusations, and those he has were incredibly passive.

Is this supposed to be the decent case you promised, or are you just trying to repeat yourself enough times that people start to believe you?

I was going to, but I noticed all of your posts were garbage. Would you like me to waste my time quoting every one of your posts and say "Look how little he does here?" It'd be even easier to prove if I had a vote count, where I can see if you're still voting TBF or if you've switched, since we get vote counts every 5 days.

It's hard NOT to think you're not passive when all you do is reply to my accusations and vote without caring about anything else. I mean, did you change your vote at all Yesterday? Have you changed your vote Today? I don't think you have. It's just so incredibly lazy sounding. Like, you're afraid to change your mind. New evidence pops up constantly. It's gonna happen.

I can start just quoting posts of yours instead, if you'd like though.

I haven't changed my vote because I still want TBF to be lynched. If anything had happened that changed my opinion on that, I'd also change my vote. As it is, TBF's behaviour is still the same as it was when I originally gave my reasons for wanting him lynched, so why would I have changed my opinion of him? Though to be honest, I'm also interested in confirming his flip so that I can work out what's up with your conviction that he's town.

By the by, is you not changing your vote all day today scummy as well? Or is that just a mark or your incredibly towny conviction in my scumitude?

If you'd like, I can redo this post with an overblown emotional reaction, because that seems to conflate with town alignment in your mind for some reason.

[FallacyofUrist]

Votecount:

*(0) - heydude6:
*(0) - Shakerag:
*(2) - TricMagic: Caz, TheBiggerFish
*(0) - IcyTea31:
*(2) - TheBiggerFish: Deus Asmoth, Shakerag
*(2) - Caz: piratejoe, heydude6
*(0) - Persus13:
*(2) - Deus Asmoth: web, adict, Teneb
*(0) - Piratejoe:
*(0) - Sheldon:
*(0) - webadict:
*(0) - Teneb:

*: Personal extension not used.
Not voting: IcyTea31, Persus13

What, a four-way tie? Am I counting this right? (wish the LurkerTracker wasn't unavailable for some reason)
~~~
Day 2 ends Monday 8:00 PM Central/Forum time. The community extension is as of yet unused.

[webadict]

I haven't changed my vote because I still want TBF to be lynched. If anything had happened that changed my opinion on that, I'd also change my vote. As it is, TBF's behaviour is still the same as it was when I originally gave my reasons for wanting him lynched, so why would I have changed my opinion of him? Though to be honest, I'm also interested in confirming his flip so that I can work out what's up with your conviction that he's town.

By the by, is you not changing your vote all day today scummy as well? Or is that just a mark or your incredibly towny conviction in my scumitude?

If you'd like, I can redo this post with an overblown emotional reaction, because that seems to conflate with town alignment in your mind for some reason.

Hah. I like the reversal on that one. Unfortunately, that really only flies if you've been here able to get information and if you've actually tried to ascertain that your pick is scummy, all of which you haven't done.

You not being emotional isn't a sign of you being scum. But, I fundamentally believe you think TheBiggerFish is Town. But now you made me do it. You made me copy and paste your posts. All... like, 3 that actually mattered. It's probably those three you would've stopped on had you not been called out, since you're really only on damage control in the others.

Spoiler: The entirety of your case on TBF (click to show/hide)

TBF: As far as I can tell, in the last 200 posts of this game as a whole, your only contributions have been joining the Maximum Spin wagon and a lot of reactionary quips (PPE: and joining the Tric wagon, again with no explanation). Do you feel like you're being a valuable asset to the town right now?

PPE:
Persus & IcyTea: According to my friend Google, Dooplis is a shapeshifter from one of the Paper Marios. Though it might mean something else, because that's a hell of a shot in the dark to take at someone's role.

So do you think Tric is actually scum, then, TBF?

Oh, I see. Your answer to someone that you think is a distraction is to do nothing besides vote for them until they're dead and ignore everything else. Good job. At not getting distracted.

Let me answer your metaphor with a dose of reality, because I always hated poetry. You say that you think the scum's likely plan is to allow everyone to get distracted and let the town fight among themselves over Tric. Based on this assertion, what you should be doing is either looking for people who are constantly talking about how Tric needs to be lynched because he's so distracting, or people who are avoiding discussing Tric at all so that Tric flipping town wouldn't reflect poorly on them. Instead, you're voting for Tric and effectively ignoring what everyone else is doing, exactly what you say you think scum want people doing.

So either you're town who is knowingly cooperating with that they think is the scumteam's plan or you're scum who (to fall back to metaphor) has decided that the best plan is to shout "Gee, wouldn't it be awful if the Empire were building a Death Star" to distract people from the fact that the Empire is building a Death Star. Either way, I fail to see how you being alive helps us any more that Tric is.

I went through your posts Today. This is your case on TBF cut to brass tacks. That's it. Am I missing something, or is that all it takes to decide he's scum? I mean, it's some pretty awful evidence, but I can totally see why it isn't:
 - Random
 - Completely and utter garbage, or
 - Worth pursuing further

Unless you would like to counter the narrative that's being built. This IS your chance to do so.

[Deus Asmoth]

I'm pretty sure that the only thing I need to do to counter the narrative, as you put it, is point out that everything I've said about TBF is entirely correct. The reasons you give for being convinced he's town, meanwhile, don't actually hold up when you look at what he's been doing.

[TricMagic]

• TheBiggerFish, be the Bigger Fish and make a case, since web thinks we're alike for some reason. Pick apart someone's posts. The Duo is a good option to show your stuff.

There is also this.

I am kind of suspicious of Deus Asmoth.  Since I keep forgetting they're in the game until they post.  That smells of lurk.

And an alternative theory: whoever stole Tric's vote thinks that they're too likely to do things that are anti-Town to be left with it.

I have nothing to do with that, for the record - it's just what came to mind.

This has been about the quality since he stopped arguing with you. And saying I've developed a Me vs Caz mentality is incorrect. I have literally posted everything for my case against him. He has yet to put up sufficient refutal.

I have nothing left to add for that case. Right now, I wonder why Persus is coasting. That and the fact the TBF only falls short of the Caz mark via his arguments early game. Caz is nearly as bad as MS, except for the fact he throws shade on anyone he can.

[webadict]

I'm pretty sure that the only thing I need to do to counter the narrative, as you put it, is point out that everything I've said about TBF is entirely correct. The reasons you give for being convinced he's town, meanwhile, don't actually hold up when you look at what he's been doing.

So, you don't believe that you should have to delve further or try to scumhunt other people?

This has been about the quality since he stopped arguing with you. And saying I've developed a Me vs Caz mentality is incorrect. I have literally posted everything for my case against him. He has yet to put up sufficient refutal.

I have nothing left to add for that case. Right now, I wonder why Persus is coasting. That and the fact the TBF only falls short of the Caz mark via his arguments early game. Caz is nearly as bad as MS, except for the fact he throws shade on anyone he can.

You didn't answer my question. Would you like to try again?

[TricMagic]

I will defer to the reasoning of you protecting TBF... You want me to make a case against you at this time? We got 1 more day in this day, and I do not want scum to get a free kill..


If I'm lucky, maybe fish will post a case that gets me lynched. At this point, his vote is useless on me, cause Caz isn't progressing. If he thinks me scum, let him take a stab at me, don't do it for him.


I am going to bed now, and will post on the morrow. One thing about my vote getting taken is the ability to tear into the other cases without worry.


I'll repeat on the get talking part though. Hopefully Caz has his Part 2 up when I wake.