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[Egan_BW]

You cannot see if there is no light, however good your vision.  Unless you are seeing in the infrared spectrum maybe.

...Infrared is a type of light. So no, if you can see in infrared and there's no light, you still cannot see. Unless you're emitting infrared yourself somehow, but then there would be light, right?

[Bumber]

You cannot see if there is no light, however good your vision.  Unless you are seeing in the infrared spectrum maybe.

...Infrared is a type of light. So no, if you can see in infrared and there's no light, you still cannot see. Unless you're emitting infrared yourself somehow, but then there would be light, right?

Radiated heat is infrared. Whether you want to classify that as light is debatable, because just beyond that are microwaves, etc. Of course the visible spectrum is defined by humans, so dwarves might call it visible light.

[Egan_BW]

which are also light

[Bumber]

which are also light

If light == all EM radiation.

[Egan_BW]

That definition makes sense to me.

[Bumber]

As a scientific definition, but not really for common discussion. To the layperson, "light" is understood to mean "visible light". The content of GoblinCookie's post implies the latter.

[Starver]

If it's light (of whatever kind) that you can see, it's visible light. To you.

Though I've jot got a handy snake to ask about it's infra-red perception through its pit-organs, whether it 'sees' as an overlay to its vision or just 'feels' the bodywarmth of its prey or something.

And there are no bees around to ask about their actual ultra-violet vision, nor a shark about its electrosensing ampullae of Lorenzini nor a bat about its sonar. Or a pigeon about its magnetic field sense.  Some of those are not even full EM spectrum, but whose to, say they don't do a full Matt Murdock with what they've got, to supplement/replace their 'visible spectrum' eyes. (The bee, certainly, as with a mantis shrimp with its evem wider spectrum and polarity discernment, because it's just more eye stuff. The rest may or may not add in their 6+th senses into their visual cortex or it might take a different route into the appropriate mirror neurons/whatever that internally represent their world and surroundings.)

[GoblinCookie]

As a scientific definition, but not really for common discussion. To the layperson, "light" is understood to mean "visible light". The content of GoblinCookie's post implies the latter.

Visible light, plus certain invisible waves like UV fit into my definition of light.  Infrared being light is funny, because that would be saying that heat *is* light.  It is also funny because like radio waves infrared is also everywhere.  It is funny to think of light without darkness, but dwarves seeing in the infrared spectrum does make sense for their lifestyle since it avoids having to have torches about the place using up scarce oxygen, emitting CO2 and giving everyone blacklung. 

[KittyTac]

I've always interpreted full darkvision as seeing in infrared.

[a52]

As a scientific definition, but not really for common discussion. To the layperson, "light" is understood to mean "visible light". The content of GoblinCookie's post implies the latter.

Visible light, plus certain invisible waves like UV fit into my definition of light.  Infrared being light is funny, because that would be saying that heat *is* light.  It is also funny because like radio waves infrared is also everywhere.  It is funny to think of light without darkness, but dwarves seeing in the infrared spectrum does make sense for their lifestyle since it avoids having to have torches about the place using up scarce oxygen, emitting CO2 and giving everyone blacklung.

Heat isn't really IR radiation, it's the energy of vibrating molecules. It just happens that most things on earth tend to mostly emit in the IR spectrum, because they aren't hot enough to send out higher-energy light packets, which is why we associate IR with heat. Something that emits lots of IR radiation is likely fairly warm, while something that emits visible light is either very, very hot, or (more likely) is just reflecting it from the sun or another high-energy light source.

IR vision would be really useful for that very reason, because if your eyes are sensitive enough, you're basically acting as your own torch.

[Bumber]

IR vision would be really useful for that very reason, because if your eyes are sensitive enough, you're basically acting as your own torch.

Which is no guarantee you'll be able to see anything over your own body heat. Anything bouncing back at you is going to be several orders of magnitude lower.

Luckily for the dwarves, the underground is at least emitting some of its own heat, but it's going to be much easier to see creatures than the walls.

[a52]

Which is no guarantee you'll be able to see anything over your own body heat. Anything bouncing back at you is going to be several orders of magnitude lower.

Luckily for the dwarves, the underground is at least emitting some of its own heat, but it's going to be much easier to see creatures than the walls.

That.. is a very good point. If your eyes were sensitive enough to see the IR bouncing off the walls, then looking at anything alive would be like staring into a lightbulb. Hmmm.

I'd imagine they'd also have reflective lenses in their eyes, like cats, but that would result in poorer general vision. Perhaps, unlike cats who see poorly up close, dwarves see very poorly from far away, which is why crossbows inevitably end up as melee weapons.

[Halnoth]

Technology isn't a single thing.  Dwarves would likely invent technology that is specifically useful to the problems their underground lifestyle creates, that however does not mean they are inventing machine guns and conquering the world.

In my opinion, two (or more) intelligent species could not exist at the same time on the same planet without one wiping out or subjugating the other. As in human history, the group with the more advanced weaponry will win out. I assumed dwarves would advance military tech right along with everything else. Especially if they had other intelligent species to content with.

[Xyon]

I would imagine that the dwarfs that do live in earths crust now just have LED lamps powered by their perpetual motion machine pump-stack water wheel generators, and complex pressure plate mechanism computers running the whole thing.

[KittyTac]

DF technology will be always at the level of the 1400s.