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[anewaname]

Yes, a burrow in a small empty room with nothing but their family and friends, a.k.a "an intervention".

[snow dwarf]

Huh interesting. After some time with this new system I'm starting to enjoy it. I mean as long as you have the df hack labor manager which shows you the stress in numbers. It actually means that you have to care for the emotional well-being of your fort. Other than rain which is the biggest dwarf killer, I managed to get a dwarf from 2000 stress to negative and he's actually quite happy, without much problem. Another problem is not being able to satisfy food needs (how does a baby know what an orka is and what it tastes like?!).

[Saiko Kila]

Another problem is not being able to satisfy food needs (how does a baby know what an orka is and what it tastes like?!).

Epigenetic memory Its grand-grand-grand-grand-grandma ate one when visiting the cousins in land far away, liked it, and now her descendants are doomed to like it too.

[FantasticDorf]

Based on what I have observed, 'Friends / Family' is taken literally.  The act of socializing is separate from being near (and socializing with) loved ones.  Being in a Tavern with others will develop relationships and fulfill 'need to party, away from people (Dwarves) in general', but the friend/family need actually requires a Dwarf designated in the relationships as friend or family.

Dwarves can have preferences for shapes and colors -- what does this apply to, if not decorations?

That's a very good question.

Dwarves will just take a appreciation of objects made out of corresponding colors; if they like the shade of blue they will implicitly like colbalt. Ive had a few instances where my mayor likes the color silver & also likes large gems, so i had a silver large gem especially cut at the metalsmith's for them to put in a pedestal in their office which immediately boosted room value (because of room centricity bugs, the thing making the room has no value itself, so dont waste beds unless its a double)

Room value is centric to the dwarf occupying it but redecorating per inhabitant is rare enough if the total value suffices but the percieved value is less than royal (because bedroom prehension).

• Public zoos & private collections don't fufill as many needs as you might think since animals are pretty commonly levelled by being around, but they do recognise favourite animals which is more of a constructive use than simply shifting immortal animals to storage and if they're wild, they can be eaten immediately after dying of old age.

If someone you've given a affluent room to (mayor or a high risk/rewarded dwarf etc) then giving them a personal zoo with a burrow for their own personal pets to be contained within will give them a space to retreat to with high pet interaction moodlets.

[Immortal-D]

Based on what I have observed, 'Friends / Family' is taken literally.  The act of socializing is separate from being near (and socializing with) loved ones.  Being in a Tavern with others will develop relationships and fulfill 'need to party, away from people (Dwarves) in general', but the friend/family need actually requires a Dwarf designated in the relationships as friend or family.

Yes, but my point is that even partaking in the same social activity (identified by unit.social_activities[] and activity.events[].participants) with a friend (not mere acquaintance) or immediate family member (parent/spouse/child, not mere grandparent/uncle/niece/etc) as designated in the "relationships" screen does not seem to actually fulfill the need to "be with friends" or "family", respectively. So I agree that it require some kind of activity with a friend or family member, but it's not clear exactly what kind of activity qualifies.

Oooh. Well then I got nothing, sorry. Maybe it's a time issue? Fulfilling the need could require they perform the activity for a minimum amount of time.

[taleden]

What if you added a pause and recenter to your script, see what they're doing when the need gets reset? If it turns out to be purely a proximity thing, maybe operating a pumpstack? If it turns out to require idle (or social activity) plus immediate proximity, maybe programmatically assign them to a burrow until the need is met?

That is part of my monitoring script, but friends/family needs seem to be satisfied so rarely that it's been hard to collect much data. So far I've only observed it to happen in two situations; the first was a child and father who got refreshes repeatedly while hanging out in the tavern (which led me down the Socialize route that ended up being a red herring), and the second was a husband and wife passing eachother in a hall while one was pathing in one direction to a stockpile job and the other was going in the other direction with no job, probably on their way to idle in the tavern.

In the second case though, because there was no shared social activity or job, I dug deeper into the unit structures at the moment the need refreshed and noticed that one of them had unit.unk_1d0[] referring to an activity with an activity_event_conversationst including only that single dwarf. I'm not sure what that means but I'm wondering if unk_1d0[] stores something like "idle chatter" activities and the entry literally represents the dwarf saying "hi" while passing in the hall. So that's one avenue I have to research more (which takes forever because it happens so seldom), although I've already tried replicating it manually with no success.

[Josher]

From what I remember from other threads discussing these things, "socializing" in taverns doesn't do the same thing relationship-wise as idling next to dwarves. IIRC, from people doing research on dwarves forming relationships, the only way to reliably do it is to force the dwarves to idle next to each other. Perhaps it's this type of idling that will satisfy the need?

[PatrikLundell]

From what I remember from other threads discussing these things, "socializing" in taverns doesn't do the same thing relationship-wise as idling next to dwarves. IIRC, from people doing research on dwarves forming relationships, the only way to reliably do it is to force the dwarves to idle next to each other. Perhaps it's this type of idling that will satisfy the need?

No. Socializing next to each other works well if it's done in isolation (such as in nuptial encouragement suites). I haven't tried to examine the mess of random socializing with others present. My primary thought about why socializing in taverns doesn't achieve much is that the socializing is stretched too thin to achieve anything with all the visitors soaking up most of the efforts. It may well be that multi party socializing is bugged as well: someone said an activity broken off before completing didn't result in anything, and if there are lots of people involved, someone is bound to be called off to harvest/sleep/eat...

[taleden]

From what I remember from other threads discussing these things, "socializing" in taverns doesn't do the same thing relationship-wise as idling next to dwarves. IIRC, from people doing research on dwarves forming relationships, the only way to reliably do it is to force the dwarves to idle next to each other. Perhaps it's this type of idling that will satisfy the need?

No. Socializing next to each other works well if it's done in isolation (such as in nuptial encouragement suites). I haven't tried to examine the mess of random socializing with others present. My primary thought about why socializing in taverns doesn't achieve much is that the socializing is stretched too thin to achieve anything with all the visitors soaking up most of the efforts. It may well be that multi party socializing is bugged as well: someone said an activity broken off before completing didn't result in anything, and if there are lots of people involved, someone is bound to be called off to harvest/sleep/eat...

Does "Socialize" (activity_event_socializest) even happen outside of a defined tavern? I've never seen it. Or did you mean "socializing" in the generic sense where the two dwarves activities both show "No Job" in their nuptial suite, rather than actually "Socialize"?

Events being interrupted by people coming and going is an interesting idea, but on the other hand my needs monitor has observed many instances of dwarves fulfilling, for example, HearEloquence on the same tick that an activity_event_performancest concluded and the dwarf's activity changed from i.e. "Listen to Poetry" back to "Socialize". So I think social activity events do run to conclusion sometimes, but even when they do so and their participants included two immediate family members, I did not observe either of them to fulfill BeWithFamily.

[FantasticDorf]

A script that disables the "tell story" dialogue for 'socialise' would be helpful as that consumes socialisation time in tiny taverns to listen to a story and break away from the conversation before both speakers have really said anything.

Remove as many instruments as you want, but they'll still tell stories about the same thing over and over but get interrupted (less) frequently than instrumental dancing via deliberately creating uneven dance worthy areas. Even if it just raised it to tell a story once a month on a long cooldown would be fine.

[PatrikLundell]

I mean socializing as the displayed activity. As I paint my suites with tavern areas (associated to the normal tavern) these activities take place in the tavern, even if it's in a separated room.

Removing instruments is likely completely futile, as it's rare they're used: most of the time they're simulated.

[FantasticDorf]

I mean socializing as the displayed activity. As I paint my suites with tavern areas (associated to the normal tavern) these activities take place in the tavern, even if it's in a separated room.

Removing instruments is likely completely futile, as it's rare they're used: most of the time they're simulated.

Yes but socialisation is just the queue up before a specialist tavern activity takes place with a check (are they socialising? commence activity on X timer, choose agent), because it'll always take priority over normal idle zones unless the area is fulll you want as few simulated instruments (with 5x5 minimum room) and storytellers as possible or to build 1 dedicated public music hall when you already have a thriving small civilian bar for socialisation besides.

         Socialisation In the Tavern activity
    ^         ^             ^
Tell Stories     Dance       (Poetry)
    ^                 ^
Contextual stories (Instrumental/ Simulated/Performers)  

The only reason players are really building taverns besides from a small selection of needs are because of the fact that its prioritised much much higher than idle zones and it bunches dwarves together, if a tavern is full, dwarves will disperse to other areas until they find a unoccupied tavern space or fufill other needs like praying.

a 2x2 of libraries with no books does the same thing, but doesn't have a ulterior 'STUDY' activity before prompting dwarves to read books because they go straight for the item and read it within the area and scholar's are assigned.

[qualiyah]

I've been playing around a lot with locking dwarves in rooms together, either to get them to talk to a spouse or friend, or to try to build a relationship between potential spouses. What I've noticed is that they sometimes seem to "Socialize" without actually socializing with someone else. Merely having two dwarves in a tavern zone together "socializing" at the same time doesn't necessarily mean that they're interacting with each other. Indeed, sometimes I'd unlock the door and one would leave, and the other would remain "socializing" with an empty room.

To get them to actually interact, they need to be adjacent at the time they're socializing. Whenever I'd see them socializing while adjacent, that would be correlated with the appropriate happy thoughts (or grouchy thoughts about arguments) or with the formation of acquaintanceships between dwarves that hadn't previously been acquaintances.

So your best bet is to force them to be adjacent by making the room as small as possible (though if you want them to have access to beds, tables, chairs, food, drink, and mugs, you'll still be reliant on luck).

One fix I'm hoping for is for dwarves to intentionally move to be adjacent to one another when socializing. (And, while we're at it, for them to deliberately seek out friends or family when socializing in a tavern.)

[FantasticDorf]

We covered tiny taverns (which has been linked to the findings page in the OP) a good few pages back to investigate this, as you said and i put in my previous post, socialisation is not a activity, its just a idling state waiting around for performances.

Prayer is the same thing, but its idle state is meditation.

[pamelrabo]

Wait, then, if I understood correctly, ¿temples have little or no effect unless you assign performers? I've got this bunch of people always grumpy because they can't pray, even having temples to each diety, but I thought they were just too pious and had no time enough to pray to each of the gods.

¿Or is it part of the whole "socialize" stuff?