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[Tinnucorch]

Just some quick observations from my last fort (44.12), especially regarding intellectual value changing thoughts and their impact on stress:

-The impact of cave adaptation symptoms seems to be huge. Thoughts caused by them frequently led to personality changes. The most common of this changes are related to decorum and stoicism and don't seem to have an impact on stress levels, but others clearly do. Being forced to drink vomit seems to be the worst of the cave adaptation related thoughts potentially leading to high insanity propensity values (in fact, I had about half a dozen of tantruming dwarves over a period of ten years, with most of them being "in a constant state of internal rage" because they were forced to drink vomit). However, some dwarves seem to "harden" trough this kind of thoughts becoming less vulnerable to stress, valuing sacrifice more etc.

-Miasma seems to affect dwarves in a similar way to cave adaptation symptoms, but since my dwarves have been much less exposed to it I can't really tell if there are any significative diferences besides the changes that can occur to the nature value with the "nauseated by the sun" and the like thoughts.

-Another huge personality changer is clothing. Old, tattered and rotting clothes are making my dwarves despise decorum, gripping them with crippling shyness and making some of them find the humor in most situation (among other effects), but this does not seem to have too much of an impact despite the ocassional mortified dwarf cancelling a job. I have a legendary clothesmaker with a monthly schedule for producing clothes, so I guess this could be much worse. Also, my fort is about 220 dwarves so probably just one clothesmaker isn't enough and with more of them it's possible that this kind of thoughts were much less prevalent.

-Justice seems to work in an exemplary way. The family members and friends of a dwarf can take note of a conviction or a expelling and start valuing more things like self control, power or become more nervous etc. Beatings also seem to have a potential effect on the convicted dwarf through the "experienced trauma" thought.

I'm really excited about what others have found about this new link between thoughts and personality values and their impact in our dwarves lifes 

[Gigaz]

Is anyone else having problems with the happyness of mercenaries in particular? They apparently get unhappy thoughts from not crafting, lack of romance and witnessing death and there's not much I can do about that. I also think they do not pray, which makes things only worse.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Is anyone else having problems with the happyness of mercenaries in particular? They apparently get unhappy thoughts from not crafting, lack of romance and witnessing death and there's not much I can do about that. I also think they do not pray, which makes things only worse.

I've seen mercenaries pray. Is your temple open to visitors?
Fairly notifiable in my fortresses as the main race I play don't need to.

[Robsoie]

Battlefield clean up are still a big problem for the dwarves fragile psyche.
After raiding gob pits enough to finally have them attacking me in retaliation (as i wasn't at 80 pop for a regular invasion from them), there was a massive amount of gob, beak dogs and trolls corpses and body parts everywhere.

The cleaning took a long long time (playing without dfhack) , and during it 5 dwarves fell into depression.
Still fortunately it's only a small amount in my fort and there's near 70 dwarves holding up so far, but considering everyone was kept roughly happy until that point, it looks like those cleanings are still a heavy hit on the stress level.

Just got a second big invasion, managed to destroy it and the clean up lead to 6 dwarves getting haggard/oblivious due to depression of the cleanup.

That's starting to get really annoying to lose dwarves this way considering there was absolutely no problem for any dwarves between those 2 battle cleanups (and all the dwarves are in military since day 1 so i guess they all have some discipline level). It looks like those cleanup skyrocket whatever stress/depression level dwaves are going through.
Or it could be because those clean takes damn too long to get finished that dwarves may then skip everything that could make them happy or "normal" and so the stress level rise without anything that can be done about it if you want to really clean up the fields.

Anyways, it's really broken.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Gave the dorfs a month off to enjoy the tavern, make friends, reduce stress and such. Small tavern, lots of mugs, one frustrated tavern keeper, you can imagine how well that went.

The tavern keeper quickly went about his work of killing off the weakest. One monster slayer and our expedition leader. That's fine, murder is a personal choice in our society.

And murder it surely was. His thoughts state that he feels nothing at seeing at seeing his friend, the expedition leader, die but horror at the death of the human monster slayer. Let's see how long the guilt of collateral damage takes to drive him insane.

[billw]

Battlefield clean up are still a big problem for the dwarves fragile psyche.
After raiding gob pits enough to finally have them attacking me in retaliation (as i wasn't at 80 pop for a regular invasion from them), there was a massive amount of gob, beak dogs and trolls corpses and body parts everywhere.

The cleaning took a long long time (playing without dfhack) , and during it 5 dwarves fell into depression.
Still fortunately it's only a small amount in my fort and there's near 70 dwarves holding up so far, but considering everyone was kept roughly happy until that point, it looks like those cleanings are still a heavy hit on the stress level.

Just got a second big invasion, managed to destroy it and the clean up lead to 6 dwarves getting haggard/oblivious due to depression of the cleanup.

That's starting to get really annoying to lose dwarves this way considering there was absolutely no problem for any dwarves between those 2 battle cleanups (and all the dwarves are in military since day 1 so i guess they all have some discipline level). It looks like those cleanup skyrocket whatever stress/depression level dwaves are going through.
Or it could be because those clean takes damn too long to get finished that dwarves may then skip everything that could make them happy or "normal" and so the stress level rise without anything that can be done about it if you want to really clean up the fields.

Anyways, it's really broken.

I agree, it isn't really a fun system at the moment. There needs to at least be some systems in place to help us manage stress with less micromanagement. I really don't want to spend all my time constantly checking stress levels and toggling labors on and off.

[tussock]

I would strongly suggest people triggering and cleaning up regular invasions get themselves a flood or magma cleaner. Or both for more *FUN*.

Like, contain most of the death to a place you can wash the bodies onto a bridge and then drop them onto a sealed corpse pile and extract the iron with a small controlled magma bath.

That's what's really upsetting your dwarfs, you know, the lack of dwarfiness in the cleanup options.

Ahem. But also, lots of the cleaners end up feeling nothing from seeing bodies by the third sight and you can just use those ones and turn it off for the more delicate dorfs. Maybe, @Robsie, if you could science up what personality traits are making the difference there, could even sort them in advance through the therapist ....

[FantasticDorf]

Ahem. But also, lots of the cleaners end up feeling nothing from seeing bodies by the third sight and you can just use those ones and turn it off for the more delicate dorfs. Maybe, @Robsie, if you could science up what personality traits are making the difference there, could even sort them in advance through the therapist ....

Trying other races it seems to be universal, but the prior obliviousness to fear was instigated by constant alcohol consumption/state which altered their base bravery. Im trying a new setup for the mini tavern to strech out a drinking room in a seperate zone connected to the same location because barkeeps will often try walking between the two areas that don't have to touch providing they're not too far away.

+ SC
 XXS
+XXX
++ +
+SSSSSSS
+SSSSSSS
+XXX XXX

Normal mini tavern with meeting zones (X) and a small drinking room seperated by a meager entrace (walls(+) with stockpiles (S) and a single chest set to cups only (C) in the top with room for 2 barrels for a bar-keeper, by having 1 or so barrels it will allow me to get dwarves drunk in emotional emergencies in safe quantities depending on how quickly the barrel empties & restocks which can be controlled by Q-dumping to a closed stockpile of alcohol barrels/pots for it to draw.

[Robsoie]

I believe what's doing the worst impact is not the horror at seeing dead gobs because indeed most dwarves after a while and military training aren't shocked anymore.

It's that the battlefield clean up take forever because the dwarves are only able to carry one item at a time on each of their "take 1 body part/useless torn clothes/item" -> dump whole loop.

And when you have a battlefield clean up that takes months (because the invaders were numerous), during that time dwarves will not do any of the "positive" activities you had already prepared in your fortress, meaning there's all their needs that they are unable to fullfill during the cleanup that will all pile up in stress and lead into depression for your most borderline dwarves.

And those amongst your dwarves that were only kept at +/- the limit of the stress threshold (due to their needs not really part of your fortress planning) will be unable to be kept in check anymore and their stress will move into the red.

I guess if i had small invasion i could test this theory, as the cleanup would be much faster and maybe end before those borderline dwarves stress themselves for too long but so far i only had big ones that takes forever to clean.

It's just very annoying, looks like i'll have to try another dwarven trick to cut the clean up time

Dwarves may haul entire bins full of items, or items individually. However, they are not smart enough to bin items in order to carry them, so this may end in numerous needless trips from deceased enemies to your fortress, each dwarf carrying one item at a time. To counter this:

    Place a small bin stockpile and a general purpose stockpile near the battlefield.
    When every spoil has been binned, remove the stockpiles, mark the filled bins for dumping, deactivate your usual garbage zone and create a new one in your fortress.
    When everything has been moved, reclaim your dumped items and restore your garbage zones as usual.

As the magma flooding to cleanup may take a long time on my location, but still it's a fun idea i'll probably work on soon.

[Sver]

Hm. Maybe it would be nice to have some sort of corpse and trash disposal workshop. Historically, when people needed to get rid of a ton of bodies in a short period of time, they'd gather them in several piles/mounds and burn. Having a workshop that functions similarly to the Butcher's, e.g. takes nearby corpses (and clothing?) and erases them from existance, would be pretty handy: after a battle, one could just build a bunch of those right next to the densest corpse piles, then order the disposal of corpses first and the disposal of clothing later.

[Robsoie]

Lots of things could be useful to help there, but those are problems that are in DF since several years and made even worse by the new stress/emotion needs features.

I got another large invasion and ... crap, dwarves don't put corpses and those stupid thousands of body parts into bin, so the bin stockpile trick i quoted before and hoped to try is then completly useless, the dwarves will still have to carry all those thousand piece of gobs, trolls and beak dogs to the atom smasher manually one stupid piece at a time.

Another massive waste of time during which the dwarves are unable to do anything to relax their increasing stress and several borderline dwarves will then not being able to be kept under control and will fall to depression again.

Oh well time for me to take a break out of the game for a while, it's just not fun anymore like this.

[Tinnucorch]

Maybe using blunt weapons instead of edged weapons helps reducing the mess? Unless something changes in the next release I'll probably try that in my next fort.

It's a little weird to find dismembered limbs in the branches of the trees several z leves above were a battle happened. I even found a head stucked in the fortifications of my archery tower 

[Rafatio]

What annoys me most about this right now is my dorf's insistance on hauling dump marked corpses and bits to the corpse pile first before dumping them much later when stockpile jobs are fewer. Corpse hauling is bad enough without doing it twice you idiots!

On a positive note, therapist with needs support, finally! Will make the monthly job merry-go-round so much easier, hopefully resulting in happier dwarves.

[Robsoie]

Maybe using blunt weapons instead of edged weapons helps reducing the mess?

I didn't thought in focusing my military in warhammers, this should indeed "cut" on the insane amount of body parts flying around.
But aren't free use of warhammer increase the amount of tooths flying all over the map ?
As if so it should very likely balance out with the sword cutting limbs unfortunately when it comes to dwarves focusing all their time in hauling one tooth by one tooth and so not taking any to balance their needs with your fortress facilities.

Hopefully this is going to improve before Toady go through the dark time of the next "big wait".

[Tinnucorch]

What annoys me most about this right now is my dorf's insistance on hauling dump marked corpses and bits to the corpse pile first before dumping them much later when stockpile jobs are fewer. Corpse hauling is bad enough without doing it twice you idiots!

It happens with burials too.

Maybe using blunt weapons instead of edged weapons helps reducing the mess?

I didn't thought in focusing my military in warhammers, this should indeed "cut" on the insane amount of body parts flying around.
But aren't free use of warhammer increase the amount of tooths flying all over the map ?
As if so it should very likely balance out with the sword cutting limbs unfortunately when it comes to dwarves focusing all their time in hauling one tooth by one tooth and so not taking any to balance their needs with your fortress facilities.

Hopefully this is going to improve before Toady go through the dark time of the next "big wait".

Teeth might be a problem, yeah. But I'm setting my mind on testing it, I don't think the issues of hauling corpses will be adressed anytime soon since I think I read in a FotF post that hauling and containers have a revamp being held back because of game save compatibility or somenthing like that.

But I wish we had the ability to burn corpses in a pire or something like that to at least avoid miasma, and maybe making corpses something less recognizable as a sentient being and not so traumatizing to handle for the average dwarf.