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[mightymushroom]

"Tric is an easy target but that doesn't mean nobody should look at him."

This part maybe deserves expansion.

I believe hector's contention is that putting shade on the miller is "easy" and therefore a possible scumtell because I'm not hunting anyone "harder" to read.

I don't see why I can't be suspicious of someone, miller or not, who makes a claim of two kills that is at odds with the evidence of one body. hector asks for more and then lets the subject rest when Tric offers nothing substantial. Tric has not given up, though. hector tells him to shut up and concentrate on RGU vs. Max Spin.

Let me quote from that post:

You have suspicions and that, but have not at all commented on RGU and MaxSpin, which, considering we have a) a cop claim b) a guilty result and c) that guilty result throwing shade every which way and arguing that the cop shouldn’t accept their guilty result because hypothetical things might have happened to throw that into doubt, and is highly amusing, means I find your lack of engagement in this game-changing moment a tiny bit unsettling.

hector several times tells people to do more scumhunting including a search for partners, but I can't tell from his posts who he might be hunting other than, after voting Max, throwing shade on RGU (and next day, me) and here he resists efforts to talk about any other players. I'm not saying it was unimportant, but I do not have to accept that it is the sole topic for the day.

That's where I come in:

Did you target anyone last night MM?

Yep. I Delayed TricMagic on the grounds that the miller/suspected mafia would then come back wondering where the result went and I would learn more about his way of thinking.

Because I had focused my night effort on Tric, I thought it fair game for me to continue inspecting the person who said the second most astonishing thing of D2, and hoped that with that delay openly claimed Tric might finally mention some other burr in his skin. When I asked about the anomaly again,

Moment Ninja-san

At the time of the post hector quotes me saying "strongest non-Max scumread," I still hadn't seen an answer and I'm warning Tric that I don't like it.
This is also the point at which I warn hector that I don't like what I read as eagerness to steer everyone else away from TricMagic.
This is also the point at which I (prematurely) ask if Starver, the other person who has shown any degree of interest after the guilty result was revealed, if he has a clue I've not gotten.

I don't know how hector comes up with me ignoring my scumread as if I'm only throwing shade without follow through.


Unanswered questions from last night:

@juicebox: Tric-Starver scumteam. Honestly, I have not circled around to thinking hard about Starver per se as scum – too little said D2 to build very far, busy with mapping out RGU or IcyTea and bits of hector during my spare time so far D3. Tric's delayed action did not actually come out as anything untoward.

@everyone: my action claim for N2 is that I attempted to redirect blueturtle's action to IcyTea. This would have given me a wedge to talk about them D3, diversifying my reads. I had no idea that blueturtle had a vigilante role, although I did suspect an even-night power after the hint drops. ("Have a good night" was written before I made my final action decision.) Since IcyTea didn't die and we're running low of other people to interfere, I see no reason to believe anything other than blueturtle passed on his opportunity to use it.

And one reply to this morning:
@Tric: there is in fact such a list back in the opening post.

[TricMagic]

So 11. That's 2| 1/1. 7 remain, so 2 more perhaps.

4/11 seems right.

My current vote is hector. But Juice is also there. Nothing from you Juice? Any actions last high

Juicebox, step up.

[randomgenericusername]

Why do you keep tunneling the only inactive player so hard?

[TricMagic]

Because he is still here. Therefore he is not inactive. If he was, he would have been replaced.

[hector13]

Let's count the ways in which you put words in my mouth, shall we?

"Tric is an easy target but that doesn't mean nobody should look at him."

This part maybe deserves expansion.

[1]I believe hector's contention is that putting shade on the miller is "easy" and therefore a possible scumtell because I'm not hunting anyone "harder" to read.

I don't see why I can't be suspicious of someone, miller or not, who makes a claim of two kills that is at odds with the evidence of one body. [2]hector asks for more and then lets the subject rest when Tric offers nothing substantial. Tric has not given up, though. [3]hector tells him to shut up and concentrate on RGU vs. Max Spin.

Let me quote from that post:

You have suspicions and that, but have not at all commented on RGU and MaxSpin, which, considering we have a) a cop claim b) a guilty result and c) that guilty result throwing shade every which way and arguing that the cop shouldn’t accept their guilty result because hypothetical things might have happened to throw that into doubt, and is highly amusing, means I find your lack of engagement in this game-changing moment a tiny bit unsettling.

hector several times tells people to do more scumhunting including a search for partners, [4]but I can't tell from his posts who he might be hunting other than, after voting Max, throwing shade on RGU (and next day, me) and here he resists efforts to talk about any other players. I'm not saying it was unimportant, but I do not have to accept that it is the sole topic for the day.

That's where I come in:

Did you target anyone last night MM?

Yep. I Delayed TricMagic on the grounds that the miller/suspected mafia would then come back wondering where the result went and I would learn more about his way of thinking.

Because I had focused my night effort on Tric, I thought it fair game for me to continue inspecting the person who said the second most astonishing thing of D2, and hoped that with that delay openly claimed Tric might finally mention some other burr in his skin. When I asked about the anomaly again,

Moment Ninja-san

At the time of the post hector quotes me saying "strongest non-Max scumread," I still hadn't seen an answer and I'm warning Tric that I don't like it.
[5]This is also the point at which I warn hector that I don't like what I read as eagerness to steer everyone else away from TricMagic.
This is also the point at which I (prematurely) ask if Starver, the other person who has shown any degree of interest after the guilty result was revealed, if he has a clue I've not gotten.

I don't know how hector comes up with me ignoring my scumread as if I'm only throwing shade without follow through.


Unanswered questions from last night:

@juicebox: Tric-Starver scumteam. Honestly, I have not circled around to thinking hard about Starver per se as scum – too little said D2 to build very far, busy with mapping out RGU or IcyTea and bits of hector during my spare time so far D3. Tric's delayed action did not actually come out as anything untoward.

@everyone: my action claim for N2 is that I attempted to redirect blueturtle's action to IcyTea. This would have given me a wedge to talk about them D3, diversifying my reads. I had no idea that blueturtle had a vigilante role, although I did suspect an even-night power after the hint drops. ("Have a good night" was written before I made my final action decision.) Since IcyTea didn't die and we're running low of other people to interfere, I see no reason to believe anything other than blueturtle passed on his opportunity to use it.

[/quote]

Here follows questions. Perhaps you will be the first person I vote that actually answers a simple question this game?

[1]: what you believe and what I actually said/mean are two different things. When did I say that you focusing on the Miller is scummy?

[2]: If you click the linked post (here)

[hector13]

Cocking post button

[hector13]

lol I forgot I had this set up too:

in·ac·tive
inˈaktiv
adjective

not engaging in or involving any or much physical activity.
"an inactive lifestyle"

synonyms:   idle, indolent, lazy, lifeless, slothful, lethargic, inert, sluggish, unenergetic, listless, underactive, torpid, sedentary, motionless
"I was terribly inactive over the holidays"

not working; inoperative.
"the device remains inactive while the computer is started up"

synonyms:   inoperative, nonfunctioning, idle; More

not engaging in political or other activity.
"an inactive Russian spy"

Highlights mine. He's inactive relative to the other players, min. /shitposting

[hector13]

Let's try that again after fixing the quote tags I messed up 'cause I'm silly.

Also bolded the questions I ask him, which I feel are probably the more important aspects of this to people who aren't me or MM, though the sections in and of themselves provide a bit of context for them.

One other part was bolded because MM trimmed an important part of a post that ran counter to the point he was trying to make by quoting the rest of it.


Let's count the ways in which you put words in my mouth, shall we?

Spoiler: the quote to which my points are referring (click to show/hide)

"Tric is an easy target but that doesn't mean nobody should look at him."

This part maybe deserves expansion.

[1]I believe hector's contention is that putting shade on the miller is "easy" and therefore a possible scumtell because I'm not hunting anyone "harder" to read.

I don't see why I can't be suspicious of someone, miller or not, who makes a claim of two kills that is at odds with the evidence of one body. [2]hector asks for more and then lets the subject rest when Tric offers nothing substantial. Tric has not given up, though. [3]hector tells him to shut up and concentrate on RGU vs. Max Spin.

Let me quote from that post:

You have suspicions and that, but have not at all commented on RGU and MaxSpin, which, considering we have a) a cop claim b) a guilty result and c) that guilty result throwing shade every which way and arguing that the cop shouldn’t accept their guilty result because hypothetical things might have happened to throw that into doubt, and is highly amusing, means I find your lack of engagement in this game-changing moment a tiny bit unsettling.

hector several times tells people to do more scumhunting including a search for partners, [4]but I can't tell from his posts who he might be hunting other than, after voting Max, throwing shade on RGU (and next day, me) and here he resists efforts to talk about any other players. I'm not saying it was unimportant, but I do not have to accept that it is the sole topic for the day.

That's where I come in:

Did you target anyone last night MM?

Yep. I Delayed TricMagic on the grounds that the miller/suspected mafia would then come back wondering where the result went and I would learn more about his way of thinking.

Because I had focused my night effort on Tric, I thought it fair game for me to continue inspecting the person who said the second most astonishing thing of D2, and hoped that with that delay openly claimed Tric might finally mention some other burr in his skin. When I asked about the anomaly again,

Moment Ninja-san

At the time of the post hector quotes me saying "strongest non-Max scumread," I still hadn't seen an answer and I'm warning Tric that I don't like it.
[5]This is also the point at which I warn hector that I don't like what I read as eagerness to steer everyone else away from TricMagic.
This is also the point at which I (prematurely) ask if Starver, the other person who has shown any degree of interest after the guilty result was revealed, if he has a clue I've not gotten.

[6]I don't know how hector comes up with me ignoring my scumread as if I'm only throwing shade without follow through.

Here follows questions. Perhaps you will be the first person I vote that actually answers a simple question this game?

[1]: "I believe hector's contention is that putting shade on the miller is "easy" and therefore a possible scumtell because I'm not hunting anyone "harder" to read."

Question What you believe and what I actually said/mean are two different things. When did I say that you focusing on the Miller is scummy?

[2]: "hector asks for more and then lets the subject rest when Tric offers nothing substantial. Tric has not given up, though."

If you click the linked post (here) you will note I ask a question, to which Tric responds in the post immediately thereafter, saying he doesn't know and asks me to ask again in ~12 hours. I follow up in the post following that one, and about 5 posts after that RGU drops his bombshell.

Very amusingly for me, the next link MM posts (Dis wan) is the post before I follow-up on the "wait 12 hours" thing Tric mentioned, ironically with the very same question that MM has wanted answering for so long!

Note: point [5] below also contains some content for this section.

Question Could you tell me at what point I let things rest with Tric?

[3]: "hector tells him to shut up and concentrate on RGU vs. Max Spin."

MM thinks that me asking the very same question he wants Tric to answer is me telling him to shut up, I think.

If not and it's actually the next quoted post, the post, from which MM removed a salient part, is quoted in full here:

Spoiler: the post he trimmed the entire first paragraph from (click to show/hide)

So why focus on that instead of getting to the bottom of things? All you’ve done is tell the person who targeted you that they were successful in their endeavor to mess you up, and annoy others with your tale of “woe is me, I am unable to leverage my otherwise incredibly useful first night action to engage the town in enancting mob justice on those that would brutally murder is in the night.”

You have suspicions and that, but have not at all commented on RGU and MaxSpin, which, considering we have a) a cop claim b) a guilty result and c) that guilty result throwing shade every which way and arguing that the cop shouldn’t accept their guilty result because hypothetical things might have happened to throw that into doubt, and is highly amusing, means I find your lack of engagement in this game-changing moment a tiny bit unsettling.

which is actually me asking why Tric is so caught up on a delayed result - that he had been told by MM(!) would not be resolved until N2 - which appears to be stopping him engaging with the major event from D2, namely RGU's guilty result and MaxSpin's subsequent counter.

I had also previously mentioned I wanted people to actually make some statements regarding it here:

Well we’re 5 days from a deadline, we can figure things out in the interim, see where people stand.

which was about 15 posts before the one I apparently told Tric to "shut up and focus on RGU and MaxSpin" as opposed to "Tric, stop focusing on something that won't be resolved until N2 and actually comment on the present game state mate"

Question Why are you trimming parts out of posts that change the entire tone of what was said?

[4]: "but I can't tell from his posts who he might be hunting"

I apparently didn't scumhunt on D2. I can kinda see that, but there's good reason for it.

This is my first D2 post, I spend a fair amount of time focusing on Tric for the early part of the day, even intimating I think he's scum with MaxSpin here.

Here is a reads list when I voted MaxSpin in which I state my scum reads are MaxSpin and Tric, and maybe MM. The only one I didn't focus on during D2 was MM.

One thing I should say, 'cause it's important to this: I try not to have more (or fewer, for that matter) scum reads than there are scum in the game. We don't know how many players of the mafia alignment there actually are in this game, so I have settled on there being two or three. Which is how many scumreads I had at the end of D2.

Question Who am I supposed to scumhunt when I am fairly confident with the people I think are scum?

[5]: "This is also the point at which I warn hector that I don't like what I read as eagerness to steer everyone else away from TricMagic."

I am so eager to steer everyone clear of TricMagic that I list him as scum in a reads list, don't bring up ever again that I think Moony's flip cleared him, and vote him at the start of D3.

Question Could you clarify

a) what you mean by "[hector's] eagerness to steer everyone else away from TricMagic"?

b) what made you think I was doing that?

[6]: "I don't know how hector comes up with me ignoring my scumread as if I'm only throwing shade without follow through."

here is every single post you made on D2:

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14]

Quick point before we start this: link 11 above is when MM voted for MaxSpin, which was 8 hours before D2 ended.

You interact directly with MaxSpin only once, in the 12th link, notably after you voted for him:

MaxSpin: Wanting to avoid a lynch could be arguably more pro-town than otherwise but the very same argument ("my alignment is more likely to succeed while I live") makes it pro-mafia and pro-3rd as well so it doesn't do much more for you than RGU's martyrdom gambit does for him. I may have mischaracterized some of your hypotheses as they got translated across the screen (sucks to be you) but you did succeed in one thing: I'm not voting you over the guilty investigation itself but from my judgment on your day game.

You cite the main motivation behind this as his performance during the day.

At no point did you ask him a question to clarify any of the hypotheses that you "may have mischaracterized", despite that being a significant component of the day play for which you are condemning him.

Question Do you think that's fair, you admitting to mischaracterizing him, failing to ask him to clarify these things, and then saying "sucks to be you" when he corrects you?

If you were a neutral onlooker, how would you describe the alignment of a player that cites another player's day game as the main reason they are voting for someone, yet didn't ask them to ever clarify that day game despite knowingly mischaracterizing it?

You voted for MaxSpin 8 hours prior to the deadline; did you ever consider using your extension to allow him to answer clarifying questions? If yes: why did you not use it? If no: why not?

Why did you not ask him to clarify any of the hypotheses that you said you mischaracterized?


I once chastised Starver after one of his lexical stream-of-consciousness posts, telling him that brevity is a watchword in Mafia.

*cough* well then.

[juicebox]

Why do you keep tunneling the only inactive player so hard?

Addendum: Why are you pressing me to post on a weekend afternoon? Some of us have actual lives y'know.

[hector13]

T’be fair you haven’t really posted anything people can get a strong read from.

[randomgenericusername]

T’be fair you haven’t really posted anything people can get a strong read from.

True, but it's still odd that he insists so much on making juicebox post.

[TricMagic]

Well, he is still here, and if he is still here tommorow at this rate...

[hector13]

Juicebox could do with telling us his action, too.

[hector13]

IcyTea

Unvote.

I'm not sure how to react to those walls. I'll park my vote on MM, but I'll need to reread the thread and look at the big picture.

How did your re-read go?


Tric

It should be reminded..
GM, vote count please.

I am leaning toward Hector being Mafia, particularly if said mafia don't know about their allies, or more likely, that those allies can't communicate with the mafia.

My current vote is hector. But Juice is also there. Nothing from you Juice? Any actions last high

Juicebox, step up.

You seem stuck between me and juicebox, though your vote on juicebox seems mostly pressure rather than a conviction they're scum.

You have a kill, apparently, which one of those two would you kill during the night?

What makes you think I'm scum?


RGU

Is it okay if I just switch my vote to mightymushroom? I was convinced by hector's post and my case against TricMagic isn't as strong. I'm not very convinced by the JOAT claim either and I feel his lynch would give us more information to work with. Even if we're worng, we have already lynched scum and an ally, so there shouldn't be a lot of scum left. I don't think we have more than 2 scum alive. Otherwise, 4 scum and a mafia-ally would make a team of 5 and that would be almost half of the town.

What makes you think my case against MM is stronger than your case against Tric?

What makes you think I'm not convinced about his JOAT claim? Why are you not convinced by the JOAT claim?

What information would you expect from a MM lynch? What information would you expect from a Tric lynch?

Do you think MM is scum? Do you think Tric is scum?


Updated action list from N2, so far as I'm aware.

So...

N2 actions I can be bothered to remember:

hector: nuffin'
Tric: completed their delayed N1 watch-whoops-it-was-actually-an-investigation on Starver, Starver is town, also Watched RGU, RGU did not act because...
IcyTea: blocked RGU
RGU: blocked
MM: redirected blueturtle to IcyTea, blueturtle evidently did not use their vig action else IcyTea would be dead
Starver: ? (allegedly town from Tric's delayed N1 watch-that-was-actually-an-investigation that resolved N2, Starver confirms that Tric visited)
juicebox: ?

mightmushroom bothers me more than juicebox.

Starver, I know you are disinclined from making absolute statements, but could y'all tell us your role? 'cause you've dropped hints all over the shop, and it would make things a bit easier for me if you clearly stated is you is or is you ain't my baby what I think you are, or at least confirm for me that you don't actually have an action, per se. An action in this instance being you specifically choosing a target, and your action resolving on that specifically chosen target during the night.


Communal extension, since there's a lot I'd like to get through and not a lot of time to do it.

[Starver]

I once chastised Starver after one of his lexical stream-of-consciousness posts, telling him that brevity is a watchword in Mafia.

*cough* well then.

Aye!