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[joaodosgrao]

Just wondering...
How complicated would it be, coding-wise, to fix the issues with bins?

[Chief10]

ptw

[Kirkegaard]

In a related note. Is it possible to edit bins out of the game? I have searched the "raw text files" but have not found them :/

[KittyTac]

In a related note. Is it possible to edit bins out of the game? I have searched the "raw text files" but have not found them :/

They're hardcoded, but I think you can remove the dorfs' access to them in the entity_default.txt raw file.

[Demonbutter]

I don't see why you'd need to mod them out when you could just not use them at all?

[Shonai_Dweller]

Just wondering...
How complicated would it be, coding-wise, to fix the issues with bins?

If you actually want an answer to that, you need to ask the one single person who actually codes the game. No point asking on a forum unless you're just looking for random 'yeah, seems simple' or 'yeah, dfhack can bypass that behavior. Kind of.' answers.

The estimated time to fix a bug when actually attempting to fix it is irrelevant though as bugs aren't usually prioritised for fixing unless they're linked to the part of the game which is actually being worked on at the time. So the answer is likely '5 minutes to 30 years'.

If you're lucky it might suddenly get looked at during a bug fixing phase, like the one we're in right now. Although it's not been mentioned so far (as opposed to other important parts of fortress mode like stress and morale).

The only thing anyone can say is that bugs are not an intended part of the game plans (not sure why people still think they are). So the answer to 'will bins ever be fixed' is yes.

[Trebor1503]

It might be nice... for consistency sake, to actually summarize the issue you are referring to with bins. I am sure it is documented elsewhere in the forums but it seems slightly impolite to begin a conversation assuming everyone knows what you are speaking about.

For instance... I am not aware of any current issue with bins. I know there used to be an issue with barrels that seems resolved and I am sure this is referring to something else. 

In my current game bins appear to be working fine. They store lots of bars of metal and fuel for the fires of my smelters. The hammers continually ring in the bowels of my fort even as the goblins stream into the gates to die in my weapon traps and under my murder holes.

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Yeah, I have to agree. Honestly, you've been complaining about bins quite a bit without actually elaborating what your problem with them is.

[Robsoie]

I remember several years ago the issue with bins was that most of the time the dwarves would never go look for the items that they dropped in bins.
So when you had a marksdwarves squad, once they were out of ammo, very high chance that not a single of them would go refill their ammo despite the thousands of bolts you had in the ammo stockpile , because you had all of them in bins.

The advice and only solution at the time was "never use bins in stockpiles" , that i applied since then and never ever used bins for anything after that, disallowing them in stockpiles. Better have bolts on the ground so the dwarves would pick them up instead of bolt in bins dwarves would ignore completely.

As in 42.x it wasn't fixed as people were still reporting about this, no idea if it has been solved in 44.x as it's been years i have ceased to use any bins in stockpile, but if i look at the bug reports it's "acknowledged", not fixed
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8755

[Damiac]

Bins are still buggy, but there are a few separate issues:

1. Worst of all, items stored in bins sometimes get 'lost', where they still show up in the stocks screen, but dwarves will never go get them.  This is most noticable on stockpiles where things get added and removed a lot, like a bolt stockpile or a gem stockpile.
With this issue, eventually you end up with stockpiles full of bins full of bolts/gems, while the gemcrafters cancel jobs saying they have no gems, and the marksdwarves have no bolts.  Dumping/reclaiming works to fix this, but is hugely time consuming and impractical.  I have stopped using bins in these types of stockpiles for that reason.

2. Less horrible, but still annoying, if a dwarf is bringing an item to a bin, no other item in that bin can be used until that dwarf is done.  Same deal if a dwarf is going to take an item from a bin, the bin is then locked until he's done.

3. Just kinda weird, dwarves like to carry heavy bins to light items (like a shirt outside for example), put the item in the bin, then drag the bin back to the stockpile.  I don't know if this is still even a thing.

4. Annoying, but probably not really a bug, dwarves will never remove an item from a bin to store it in a stockpile.  So if I have a stockpile that takes bins, and accepts bolts, I will have a stockpile of bolts in bins.  If I then make another stockpile that takes bolts, but disallows bins, and tell it to take from the first stockpile, it will NOT take bolts from the bins and put them in the binless stockpile.  Furthermore, if I then disallow bolts in the first stockpile, the bins will still sit there full of bolts, in a stockpile where they're not even allowed.

Item 1 is the worst, not having access to your bolts when you need them can kill you.

Item 2 is the cause of much cancellation spam, and I suspect somehow the underlying logic is what gets items 'lost'.

Item 4 prevents a simple workaround that would allow us to have small stockpiles without bins pull from large stockpiles with bins, which would then directly feed workshops, preventing the job cancellation spam from item 3.

[joaodosgrao]

Thank you Damiac!

You have spared me the time for numbering the obvious bin flaws for the people ignorant of this issue

And, yes, I pretty much agree with your statements.
Items get lost/unusable because of them too often.

As for #3 issue, it IS still a thing. Sucks big time.

Pointing a flaw within the game is nothing out of the ordinary. The "impoliteness" lies in the eye of the beholder.
If I offended any rose-tinted glass wearing players, I'm sorry.

[Urist McVoyager]

Um, back off the offense train there, buddy. They weren't offended about your complaints, they were annoyed that you didn't explain them. Which is valid. From now on, don't just drop a one sentence opener on a thread and expect good results. I've seen threads like that get locked on other sites before. Explain things so everybody knows what page you're on.

[joaodosgrao]

Being called out as impolite for mentioning obvious flaws without numbering them seems weird.
That's why I assumed the possibility of people being offended.
If there was no offense, great, we can stick to the subject

Btw, Damiac has done a great job numbering them. And I pretty much agree with all his points, couldn't have done better myself.

[Urist McVoyager]

I don't play very often, so I don't remember if I've run into these issues. I think some of them, but not all.

ETA: Also, that anti-offense apology sucked because you insulted people at the same time you apologized. If you were trying to disarm the offense, you honestly made it grow by saying anyone was wearing rose-tinted glasses.

[joaodosgrao]

I assumed one would have to wear rose tinted glasses to feel offended by my obvious non-offenseful statement.
Unless the shoe serves, I also assume no one will feel targeted by the rose-tinted glass addendum.
Thus, the point is moot.

Either way, let's stay on topic.