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[Tiruin]

But like... somebody, I forget who, said a bit earlier, why not just plain vote for No Lynch rather than wait?

And finally... if you prefer to no lynch day 1, why did you vote Tiruin?

I don't know, it seems to have worked pretty well as a strategy, I've managed to make a few people engage in extremely suspicious behaviour.

ETA: I suppose it's clear enough that I'm pointedly ignoring Tiruin, but I did want to add that no, I've actually never played Town of Salem, but I have played IRC Mafia with people who are... ah... somewhat better at this.

Interesting how you subtly segue onto calling me things and impressions when you don't pay awareness to several factors

1. I could be pressure voting--it's pretty much 'deduced' if I have to assume your mindset of assumption, from my posts 'way back', to echo your words.
2. "Supposedly clear that I'm pointedly ignoring" WITHOUT ANY EXPLANATION WHATSOEVER
See if you've the idea based on IRL Mafia? You're templating, and carrying that template into other places where context may 98% be wholly different. You did not notice or denote how many posts I've been asking you wholly neutral questions, that are only emotionally biased on the reader's side. And in retrospect--what reason do you have in ignoring me?

Because I voted for you?

Or because you thought people were 'ah...somewhat better than this' in your note of your first poke at me?
That is templating. Setting people's actions only to what is known. And if what is known is limiting in perspective, it can hinder you in a Mafia Forum Game.

You know, there's not really enough data to go on to be flinging accusations around yet.
But since I guess we're on that train anyway,
I currently assume F-of-U is just misguided. No hard feelings.
But Tiruin needs to settle down some.

Impressions stick farther than current analysis, and as you're pretty new to forum mafia, have a basic outline.

Forum mafia is wholly different from any other form of mafia--IRC, IRL, or otherwise. Snap judgements aren't a common norm when people can dedicate their time to looking over their posts; treated much like how you would do an essay, not based on impressions and assumptions but thoroughness. Snap judgements can happen when people can be emotional, seen in-between their narrative or prose, or how they even post (and this has been a thing noted by communication studies if I have to segue into a wholly aside note ), but otherwise you have all the time you have in thinking your post up, in between that of the person you're talking to, and your own ideas.

Basically my 'leaning into people' was precisely something I have mentioned pre-game. All I've done is poke people, not in a decidedly lynchy way, but in the common communication norm; they develop impressions of what I do--but I do what I do in that I can follow it up. "I do not care about my role. I care about the day game." And that means getting dialogue or reads on people, and I have good notes on you and some others based on your dialogue (or reluctant lack thereof), that will help me in further nights; and as everything in the day game is public, it is also of passive observation for everyone else as an opportunity to take note of...or discard as 'baseless action'.

Beware ahead of using templates to understand others' behavior, especially if you're not familiar with the context. If the scenario is wholly conceptually familiar, without anything else being familiar, you may lean to follow only what you're familiar with.
And since you're new--do know I am good at formatting; the tone is left out in text or the internet, so at times my impressions can be seen as different when read in certain tones.

Also if you're going to argue for a no lynch--support it by talking with people, including why you believe it is the best course of action rather than arguing against people and demeaning them for 'voting for a lynch D1', unless you can make a detailed point about it. Calling these things (to reference King awesome) with generalizing terms do tell others, implicitly, that its a template you're using, rather than an actual argument. (Because it made sense in a context before this game)

What's the current vote count, anybody?

Soft Hammers.

- Semi-hammers in effect. Days last on a soft 72 hours, unless majority is voting for any player or No Lynch. If a player is hammered, there is to be no more talking. If you accidentally post something after the hammer, you can and should edit out the post.

Not including weekends WHICH NQT DIDN'T MENTION HMPF :I

I think I got it out here .__.;

Fingers are carefully rendered pixel by pixel and then pointed at one another.

Vote Count
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [1] - juicebox
Fallacy of Urist
NJW2000
codybob1999
Starver
Maximum Spin [3] - Fallacy of Urist, Tiruin, Leafsnail
Leafsnail
Shakerag
4maskwolf
kingawsume
BlackHeartKabal
juicebox
no lynch [2] - Maximum Spin, kingawsume

Day will end 12AM 26th Oct BST. Hammering is now possible.

[Maximum Spin]

Or you could settle down and discover that the ability to presume less was inside you all along.

[Tiruin]

Or you could settle down and discover that the ability to presume less was inside you all along.

I have found my mandala in this time of peace. ^ ^

But um,  if it wasn't that clear--I wasn't presuming at all; I was pretty much dialoguing with you to get an idea of you. Also your impressions are still there :V (It helps to detail those impressions because you're not going to be JUMPLYNCHED or whatever, as everything is in record [also no editing posts, as an aside to anyone new to this])
...Also I'm getting the feeling that you feel 'having a vote placed on you' is something substantial. In a way, it is, but on forum mafia inasmuch as other mafia games, people are influenced by the Flow of information rather than impressions (unless...they stick to impressions. It's more on part of how anyone personally thinks and that's a place for their own guidance and growth), so even if you've a vote on you, it doesn't matter. Context defines how much it matters. (Pretty much the #1 rule in BMs being taught; how to treat votes on yourself, or you being given ideas on thoughts on when you see others voting others)
If you think my vote is pretty 'presumey' on you; I respond that "that is strange", because in the lack of details forthcoming, the only major inference I have is 'you're presuming I'm presuming you're Town' ...which is weird both ways. But you 'refused' to talk with me.

In the day game on forums, we at times don't rely on actions unless it is a super power heavy game, and even then. (This game I doubt has any day powers given that we can ROLL the random generator to try spotting them). That is the core root of at least, how I was taught (since Bay12 is the first place I both met Mafia, and played it since...2012-13? .__.. It's in the BMs (Beginner's Mafia), where other forum goers go as ICs and teach us the ropes alongside our own strategies. As a benefit, it teaches how to work with impersonal mediums of communication, and how to clarify your idea in a way that doesn't rely on the fear of being lynched, or that kind of 'how to think about the daygame' in a way that'd be productive. As a contrary point, it may lead to templating itself in 'how the day game "should" be played', but this forum isn't much on that, although there have been times where that happened. It's the follow up that matters in moving this course of communication forward.

Since this came up in my last mafia game I'd like to ask for everyone's opinions on liars. Which is to say,
 if someone softclaims something on day one and then contradicts that in a later claim, how do you treat that person? I will provide my own perspective later.

I'd base it on the context. >_<
To explain: it's how the person lines up their ideas in comparison to everyone around them, and to how others interact with them--Town can lie (...I have .-.; even if I really dislike lying IRL), moreso when their intent is towards a personal plan, but it does garner attention from others and usually when I've read people lying (who were town as revealed post game), there was a motive for doing so. Other than 4maskwolf playing gambits, which has changed in the months ago anyway.

It's more to treat the person and any direct connections to their outcome. Or to how clear they make their ideas that influences how I treat them, though.

[Maximum Spin]

Or you could settle down and discover that the ability to presume less was inside you all along.

I have found my mandala in this time of peace. ^ ^

But um,  if it wasn't that clear--I wasn't presuming at all; I was pretty much dialoguing with you to get an idea of you. Also your impressions are still there :V (It helps to detail those impressions because you're not going to be JUMPLYNCHED or whatever, as everything is in record [also no editing posts, as an aside to anyone new to this])
...Also I'm getting the feeling that you feel 'having a vote placed on you' is something substantial. In a way, it is, but on forum mafia inasmuch as other mafia games, people are influenced by the Flow of information rather than impressions (unless...they stick to impressions. It's more on part of how anyone personally thinks and that's a place for their own guidance and growth), so even if you've a vote on you, it doesn't matter. Context defines how much it matters. (Pretty much the #1 rule in BMs being taught; how to treat votes on yourself, or you being given ideas on thoughts on when you see others voting others)
If you think my vote is pretty 'presumey' on you; I respond that "that is strange", because in the lack of details forthcoming, the only major inference I have is 'you're presuming I'm presuming you're Town' ...which is weird both ways. But you 'refused' to talk with me.

In the day game on forums, we at times don't rely on actions unless it is a super power heavy game, and even then. (This game I doubt has any day powers given that we can ROLL the random generator to try spotting them). That is the core root of at least, how I was taught (since Bay12 is the first place I both met Mafia, and played it since...2012-13? .__.. It's in the BMs (Beginner's Mafia), where other forum goers go as ICs and teach us the ropes alongside our own strategies. As a benefit, it teaches how to work with impersonal mediums of communication, and how to clarify your idea in a way that doesn't rely on the fear of being lynched, or that kind of 'how to think about the daygame' in a way that'd be productive. As a contrary point, it may lead to templating itself in 'how the day game "should" be played', but this forum isn't much on that, although there have been times where that happened. It's the follow up that matters in moving this course of communication forward.

For example, I think you will find that I never said anything about whether I have or have not played forum Mafia. I merely said that I haven't played it in real life, and have played it on IRC. This is an example of a presumption. You also presume that I have impressions of you, or that my ignoring your previous questions constitutes a refusal to discuss (as the fact of this current post clearly disproves), to name a few more. You presume that I do not know how to communicate or daygame effectively, when I have in fact said precisely as much as I felt the need to say at every individual point in time; you presume that I'm "templating" when you have no idea what I'm thinking. You currently seem to be presuming that I targeted you for voting for me, which is especially odd since you voted for me after I voted for you. You'll probably even presume that I'm answering you now because something has changed on my end, as a result of something you said, instead of this being the natural evolution of my previous state, with no intrinsic conflict, which it is. These are the kinds of things that I mean.

[Tiruin]

For example, I think you will find that I never said anything about whether I have or have not played forum Mafia. I merely said that I haven't played it in real life, and have played it on IRC. This is an example of a presumption. You also presume that I have impressions of you, or that my ignoring your previous questions constitutes a refusal to discuss (as the fact of this current post clearly disproves), to name a few more. You presume that I do not know how to communicate or daygame effectively, when I have in fact said precisely as much as I felt the need to say at every individual point in time; you presume that I'm "templating" when you have no idea what I'm thinking. You currently seem to be presuming that I targeted you for voting for me, which is especially odd since you voted for me after I voted for you. You'll probably even presume that I'm answering you now because something has changed on my end, as a result of something you said, instead of this being the natural evolution of my previous state, with no intrinsic conflict, which it is. These are the kinds of things that I mean.

Well >_< You...only replied to my posts with presumption! (And I have never said you haven't played forum Mafia It is hard to use x-person pronouns that way when I mean to be speaking in the plural 'you')
So...yeah I presume you've impressions on me. You don't want to speak to me, named as such! So...yeah. Dual impressionism! \o/

And err, its more you targeted me with that vote, and then there was no detail thereafter :< is what I mean by target. (It's more I was ignored u_u EQUALLY! Like everyone else. Which has its own tone of respect I guess ._.

[Maximum Spin]

In re targeting I mean to respond to:

...Also I'm getting the feeling that you feel 'having a vote placed on you' is something substantial.

and the following paragraph passim; you seem to be presuming that my actions have in some way been in response to a vote placed on me. The only way I have responded to votes placed on me directly, so far, has been to describe F-of-U as misguided for doing so.

I will also add that I don't mean that your vote is presumptive, although in principle I suppose it is, but that your statements and questions have been.

[juicebox]

kingawsume: because the lynch is our main source of information. If we don't lynch we actually lose out on important information that could really help us in the long run.

This is decidedly false; over-eagerness to lynch is a very good sign of mafia alignment. Until the first mafia action you have nothing, no matter how much you believe otherwise; no point wasting two players when you could lose only one.

Incidentally, in keeping with my earlier promise and kingawsume's vote, no lynch.

ETA: also I'm not refusing to talk, but it won't be on anyone's terms.

The lynch is the town's most reliable way of obtaining information. If we base our decisions on the mafia's actions then we allow them to control what information we get. However by lynching, and scumhunting during the day, we have our own flow of information.

Also, overeagerness to lynch is only a scumtell when the target is a poor one, or when one is trying to end the day early, neither of which is occurring here.

In re targeting I mean to respond to:

...Also I'm getting the feeling that you feel 'having a vote placed on you' is something substantial.

and the following paragraph passim; you seem to be presuming that my actions have in some way been in response to a vote placed on me. The only way I have responded to votes placed on me directly, so far, has been to describe F-of-U as misguided for doing so.

I will also add that I don't mean that your vote is presumptive, although in principle I suppose it is, but that your statements and questions have been.

You seem to be missing the point. What Tiruin is trying to say is that you can't always apply the principles from other forms of mafia or even other forums to this one, because the styles of gameplay can vary wildly. Tiruin is not being presumptive she's trying to help a new player to this forum get accustomed to our meta, which can take some getting used to.

Salem d1 nolynches eh? Not as weird as one irl mafia game I knew where they started at night. Takes all sorts to make a world, I guess

All of the IRL mafias I've played have started at night, so it doesn't really seem that wiers to me

[juicebox]

EBWOP: It doesn't seem that weird to me.

[Maximum Spin]

You seem to be missing the point. What Tiruin is trying to say is that you can't always apply the principles from other forms of mafia or even other forums to this one, because the styles of gameplay can vary wildly. Tiruin is not being presumptive she's trying to help a new player to this forum get accustomed to our meta, which can take some getting used to.

This is an excellent example of a series of presumptions.

[Shakerag]

Okaty you sonabitches.

I talked to NQT.  And he said that I don't need another player to get my gift on.  So as long as no one targets me tonight, ya'll gonna get some ring a ding ding tonight.

[NJW2000]

You targeting yaself, I take it?


Anyway: thoughts no nolynch/presumption stuff: it's good that such dialogue is going on, but nobody seems particularly off in that exchange, just fairly fimly set in their ideas.. That said, might be worth lynching one of the "no-lynchers" just in case they have similarly flawed or just disruptive ideas about the rest of the game, if nobody looks particularly scummy.


Have codybob1999 and TheDarkStar said anything yet?

[juicebox]

TDS posted once. I haven't seen codybob at all.

[Shakerag]

You targeting yaself, I take it?

Can't.  Doesn't matter who I target, really.  Any volunteers?

[Maximum Spin]

Anyway: thoughts no nolynch/presumption stuff: it's good that such dialogue is going on, but nobody seems particularly off in that exchange, just fairly fimly set in their ideas.. That said, might be worth lynching one of the "no-lynchers" just in case they have similarly flawed or just disruptive ideas about the rest of the game, if nobody looks particularly scummy.

I'd just like to assure you that I am not set in any ideas except Radical Freedom.

[FallacyofUrist]

Can't.  Doesn't matter who I target, really.  Any volunteers?

If you don't mind triggering my ability, me. My ability shouldn't be lethal...