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[PatrikLundell]

No, you can't set up a visitor's only tavern. Even if you put it in the corner of the map and don't have any of your own facilities nearby (including in the Z dimension), you'll still see a steady traffic of dorfs wasting time to go back and forth to the visitor's tavern.

There are no repercussions to Visitite mining using alcohol (with the possible exception of diplomats), and not much (or any) using steel, although the latter approach can cause some loyalty cascade if you're unlucky and somewhat careless.

[Torchwood202]

So I can convert my visitor tavern into a drowning chamber? I assume the tables and chairs would be fine...

Any other ways I can make this mining operation more efficient?

[spazyak]

So I can convert my visitor tavern into a drowning chamber? I assume the tables and chairs would be fine...

Any other ways I can make this mining operation more efficient?

Get a burning wooden master work in a near by chamber, tavern should be 2 urists tall, make an airlock into and out of the chamber with an air vent from the artifact chamber to the tavern seperated by a grate and a bridge.

Code: [Select]


Side:
|Tavern[==/[__a__|
|_______|     

Top:
_________________
|    _______     |
|  |        [_/| |
|  | ______|     |
|____M___________|
M =Magma coated ramp
[ = Grate
/ =Bridge
A burning artifacts

Basicaly a wooden artifact will never stop burning unless put out so you can have a cart holding the artifact sent down a shallow pit of lava (1to 2/7) where it will light on fire and continue to burn as it goes around the tracks producing smoke, this chamber should be seperated from the rest of the fortess, perhaps through air locks and will be powered by rollers.

When you wish to harvest the visitite seal in the ore to prevent your greedy dwarves from rushing in to steal it for themselves, and punish those who decide otherwise against the warnings, and lower the bridge. Smoke will flood into the room and will cause injury to those inside eventualy and make them pass out.
 When they are all dead or properly incapacitated, open the tavern to the outside, let the smoke clear out, unseal it completely, and collect your reward.

Another thing similar to this you could do is send a bunch of carts ladden with junk through the top levels down to the bottom area at high speed where they can then bounce around and fling their contents around killing and injuring people.

Also if you burrow your dwarvs outside your visitor tavern they shouldn't be able to go in, you can then have a second burrow that includes the tavern for your tavern keeps and just use military squades to move them out when you wish to harvest the visitite they've uncovered for mining.

[Torchwood202]

Can't I, say.... straight up attack them? Sure, a citizen or child may get caught in the crossfire but usually the element of surprise seems to kill off even heavily war forged visitors.

For some strange reason, my military dwarves refuse to equip the unforbidden and properly stored armor, weapons, and items that are produced in my mine. I take them off the cor- the, uh, exhausted veins and place them in actual stockpiles inside my base. My dwarves will only equip them if I specifically assign each individual piece to them. Surely my military is supposed to automatically find the best armor- or even any available armor- for themselves, right?

[bloop_bleep]

You could just make a 2x1 tavern, and drop a boulder on one of the squares. Most of the tavern-goers on that tile will dodge out of the way onto the other tile, where they would smash into at least a couple tavern-goers, who would then bounce back onto the first tile, smashing into even more tavern-goers -- until almost everyone gets blown to smithereens in true conservation-of-energy-defying fashion.

Although I think there's a decent chance that tavern size somewhat influences how many visitors go to your tavern, so perhaps this won't work so well.... It is an excellent mass-execution device, though.

[spazyak]

You could just make a 2x1 tavern, and drop a boulder on one of the squares. Most of the tavern-goers on that tile will dodge out of the way onto the other tile, where they would smash into at least a couple tavern-goers, who would then bounce back onto the first tile, smashing into even more tavern-goers -- until almost everyone gets blown to smithereens in true conservation-of-energy-defying fashion.

Although I think there's a decent chance that tavern size somewhat influences how many visitors go to your tavern, so perhaps this won't work so well.... It is an excellent mass-execution device, though.

From what i have seen taverns require a certain level of size, preferably at least a 4x4 area with one edge devoted to tables and chairs, one edge to instruments and a few storage spaces and the rest to "dance" rooms

So a 4x4 area would be

2 storage 2 instruments, 2 chairs 2 tables, the rest open this will create a 9 area dance floor with room,
put in a sealable "bedding area" underneath with a few decent bed rooms to further attract visitors and get them to stay

, you may need to change the method of draining a flood chamber if you use one, but that would be simply shifting your drainage system down a level and letting the water in the floor above drain down like a bath tub full of hopes and dream going to the drain. All in the name of making your life just a bit easier.

[Fleeting Frames]

Tables/chairs serve no function in tavern beyond designating one, actually. The visitors never eat, and they drink standing up.

Also, dance room floor space needs to be at least 5x5 to get any dances; some dances need up to 10x10. Not that corpses dance....

@bloop_bleep: very small taverns are bad idea because multiple taverngoers trying to use same tile will zero your fps.

@Torchwood: Sure, but you'll have to target visitors by yourself with that. Might as well mark their gear for dumping instead in that case. Rather, for automatic mining could set up, say, a drowning+gear flushing chamber triggered by visitor opening a door.

@PatrikLundell: I don't recall, but did a civilian alert prevent dwarves from going into visitor-allowed tavern?

[PatrikLundell]

Bedrooms associated with taverns do not attract visitors. They're used as living quarters for visitors you've granted residence, but I've certainly had petitions before I have any resident bedrooms (I assign such bedrooms as I accept petitions).

I haven't explicitly tried to use civilian alerts to keep dorfs out of a visitor's tavern, but I have no doubt that would keep them away in almost all cases*. The problem with that approach is that you can't then allocate poisoners to that tavern, and the other alternative, i.e. to manually allocate every dorf except the poisoners to a "normal" burrow is rather cumbersome.

* Dorfs are known to defy burrows for needs reasons. One suspected case is where civilians unexplicably just wanders out into the arms of a besieging army, and a theory is that it's cause by the "need to wander". Another case is when you burrow (or assign to training duty) dorfs engaged in needs activities. They just continue, typically far longer than they would have otherwise, until they get hungry/thirsty/drowsy.
A third case is largely a corollary to the second one: dorfs enter the burrow to eat/drink/sleep, and then just run away back to the tavern, completely ignoring the burrow. My theory there is that it's the jobs rewrite "thinking" phase that causes the dorf to just walk away for a number of steps after an activity, and if those steps are sufficient to get the dorf out of a burrow the dorf completely ignores the burrow, although it will only take up real jobs inside the burrow (but "continuing" social activities is apparently OK).

[Staalo]

I have managed to keep citizens away from the visitor tavern simply by creating a burrow which covers the entire map except the tavern, and assigning it to the default civilian alert state. Of course it helps that my visitor tavern is usually far away from the rest of the fort and quite small and shabby compared to the citizen tavern.

When placed to a suitable chokepoint  a visitor tavern can help a lot with defence, and all those visitors coming and going act as an early warning system against weres and other ambushers. They're too useful to be killed or drowned outright.

[spazyak]

On the note of killing yourvisitors, I have tried this though some of the mercs can be a pain, it seems to have no penalty unless you harm a dwarf or visitor of your civ.

[Torchwood202]

Realized that human armor isn't a good fit for dwarves, hence why they continued to ignore them.

Automatic mining would kill visitors and citizens indiscriminately. Such is the price we pay for items too large for dwarves.

[spazyak]

Realized that human armor isn't a good fit for dwarves, hence why they continued to ignore them.

Automatic mining would kill visitors and citizens indiscriminately. Such is the price we pay for items too large for dwarves.

Melt them down. You can reuse the materials, a fortress member only tavern far from the mining tavern in the burrowed section ought to help too.

[Staalo]

Just a gentle reminder that you really, really don't have to kill your visitors to mine visitite. Just designate their gear to be dumped/melted and your haulers will come to strip them bare, no violence involved. You can roleplay they lost everything while gambling in the seediest tavern in your fortress.

With any luck those guests will visit your fortress again later, possibly bringing a new set of fancy gear for you to loot.

[spazyak]

Just a gentle reminder that you really, really don't have to kill your visitors to mine visitite. Just designate their gear to be dumped/melted and your haulers will come to strip them bare, no violence involved. You can roleplay they lost everything while gambling in the seediest tavern in your fortress.

With any luck those guests will visit your fortress again later, possibly bringing a new set of fancy gear for you to loot.

The idea that a person enters a tavern looks for the bartender to grab a drink before being ambushed by a bunch of feral beards and being stripped nude is hilarious.

[Hanslanda]

I love how this immediately turned into a discussion on how best to murder and/or rob strangers.