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[RulerOfNothing]

Kashyyk, some more questions:
1) is Furs a luxury or uncommon resource?
2) If I have a Hunting Camp, does that produce 400 or 600 pounds per turn in additional income?
3) If the answer to 2 is 400 pounds, is the fact that basic investment (where possible) is a better use of 2000 pounds than upgrading to a hunting camp intentional?

[Kashyyk]

1) is Furs a luxury or uncommon resource?

Uncommon, I'll add it to the list.

2) If I have a Hunting Camp, does that produce 400 or 600 pounds per turn in additional income?

£400 per turn.

3) If the answer to 2 is 400 pounds, is the fact that basic investment (where possible) is a better use of 2000 pounds than upgrading to a hunting camp intentional?

Yes. Money-producing investments of all kinds have diminishing returns.

[Tiruin]

1) is Furs a luxury or uncommon resource?

Uncommon, I'll add it to the list.

You should also update the OP! I only recalled that Furs substitute for Game when I searchword'd 'furs' in recalling what my turn plan was.

Also what's a luxury resource again? ._.

[RulerOfNothing]

Also what's a luxury resource again? ._.

The main thing (at the moment) that luxury resources impact is the Marketplace, where luxuries give +8% to the income bonus instead of the +5% from uncommon and manufactured resources.

[Sheb]

3000 £ of bvasic investment yield 300/turn, or 10%. Paying the 3000 for a Hunting Camp yield 400, or 13,3%. Not great, but better unless you have one of those building that bump base income.

[Kashyyk]

Luxury resources are the rarest resource, compared to uncommon and common. It is possible that I should have just named them rare instead to avoid this confusion. They also offer a higher percentage income to the others and are typically worth more in marketplaces and other similar buildings. They tend not to be "useful" though, in the way iron or stone is.

[RulerOfNothing]

3000 £ of bvasic investment yield 300/turn, or 10%. Paying the 3000 for a Hunting Camp yield 400, or 13,3%. Not great, but better unless you have one of those building that bump base income.

Or I could spend 1000 £ on a Hunting Lodge, 2000 £ on basic investment, and still get £400/turn, but without losing 1 Happiness.

[Sheb]

3000 £ of bvasic investment yield 300/turn, or 10%. Paying the 3000 for a Hunting Camp yield 400, or 13,3%. Not great, but better unless you have one of those building that bump base income.

Or I could spend 1000 £ on a Hunting Lodge, 2000 £ on basic investment, and still get £400/turn, but without losing 1 Happiness.

Uh, right.

[Criptfeind]

I'm interested to see if this will be just a lower income game then the first one. If other building chains give a diminishing return as well... Currently the best long term investment we can see is long distance trading via caravans. Once you get up to around 3k from a caravan and especially if you're using a ship to move it faster it's better then basically any option, rivaled only by t1 industry buildings in efficiency. It actually seems like the best option for the cash one gets from a caravan is buying more caravans. We might end up passing around caravans instead of investing in our own land if this thread continues. I guess bandits might eventually be a thing. Although we'll have to see what the radio of bandit to income is. Investing in more ships to beat them off and such.

Edit: To Tiruin? A loan on fermentation? I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you mean, I give you diplomacy now, but you can't pay me because you need all your money to set up fermentation buildings and so you'll pay me back the 300 later, then yes. I'd be up for that. That makes perfect sense to me, fermentation buildings being highly money efficient in ones capital.

Edit 2: Thinking about it, the t1 to t2 different is especially notable, seemingly heavily encouraging one to go wide instead of tall... Although has it's own downside. For a lark, I went and added up a bunch of costs and stuff and found my military has so far cost me 4750 money, and the income from the lands I've taken over has given me 2958 money. It's a little bit better then that when you think about the t1 building I was able to get in the land I took over that actually had a resource in it (btw: how rare are you guys finding resources? I've gotten them in 2/5s of the places I've taken over, although one is a hard to use lumber resource that requires a tech to even start cutting it down.) Also of course, I still have this big old army around. (until it randomly dies to a series of bad rolls) but even so from a pure money perspective this seems to imply that it might have been better for me to dismiss my macemen at the start (or just use them until they die rather. Free units aren't too hard on the pocket book) and then invest all my cash into something else, probably caravans... I mean. That's not all totally fair, nothing pays for itself right away, I guess over half is a good roi if you average the times I've taken over places? I guess that'd be fair. I probably shouldn't try to think so hard when I'm a bit sleep deprived. My military is currently paying for itself worse then basic investment overall, but not like completely terribly. A lot of the spearmen don't feel like they are pulling their economic weight though. I need to get something to make them shock.

[Sheb]

Just doing some quick math, it seems that if you had invested 1/8th of 4750 every turn (~600) you would have made ~2130 so far out of basic income. So you're still ahead. And, as you said, you got that army around, plus benefits from t1 buildings and from trade (if growing helped you set up trade route).

Also, as technology increase the stats of our troops, their ROI is going to increase too. I lost my army and spend my cash on other things for a while, but sooner or later it's going to be the efficient thing ot invest in again.

[Criptfeind]

Hum. That's a good point. Although I'm. Currently getting in 296 in profit a turn from income from taken over places - army upkeep. Investing into basic income would be getting me 475. There's some sorta discrepancy there, probably because the mace men were free at the start the first couple of places I took over with them were highly efficient and everywhere after that when I purchased a ton of spearmen was, as of yet, highly inefficient. But I don't plan on increasing my army size from this point for at least 5 more turns, which should increase the efficiency of those units, assuming they don't die.

When I do expand my military I'm hoping to use blights. The warlock is really really really expensive, but damn those blights are good for the price. I think maybe once I want around 10 or so blights it'll be worthwhile. Which is probably when I get ready to attack Steel.

[Criptfeind]

(A week is long enough that double posting is fine right?)

So. We should be pretty close to the all people trade network, once this turn gets up, correct me if I'm wrong but if I tracked the trade lines that have been made correctly, after this turn we should have

Micelus connected to Nirur Torir, Sheb, and Ghazkull.
Taricus connected to Khan Boyzitbig, Snowdwarf, Tiruin, Itieum, and Criptfiend
Criptfeind connected to Tiruin, Itieum, and Taricus
Sheb connected to Micelus, Ghazkull and Nirur Torir
Ghazkull connected to Sheb, RulerOfNothing, Nirur Torir, and Micelus
RulerOfNothing connected to Ghazkull
Tiruin connected to Criptfeind, Itieum, Taricus, and snowdwarf
Papaj... Uh... No one.
Nirur Torir connected to Sheb, Micelus, and Ghazkull
Khan Boyzitbig connected to Snowdwarf, and Taricus
Snow dwarf connected KhanBoyzitbig, and Taricus, and Tiruin
Iituem connected to Criptfeind, Tiruin, and Taricus

After that it should take one turn for Criptfeind, Tiruin, Iituem, Taricus, Snowdwarf, and KhanBoyzitbig to all be connected as well as Sheb, RulerOfNothing, Nirur Torir, Micelus, and Ghazkull on the other side with snow dwarf and Nirur Torir connected, and then a third turn for everyone to connect to everyone else. So, we're only 3 turns away from a world wide (er... Minus Papaj) trade network! I can't wait to see what horrible events this causes to spawn!

As a bit of an aside (although now that we're all soon to be buddy buddy maybe not that far of an aside) I wonder how tough the empire is. If anyone has like a diplomat I wonder if we should like... Pay that person to send the diplomat to the empire and tell us how tough their forces are.

[Tiruin]

It's probably Kashyyk's best way of giving us a leg up, given our low income and the looming threat of Imperial bureaucracy paying little mind to 'owning all lands'. That and I'm really concerned that the 'trade hubs' are decentralized rather than centralized--although this is a good thing as if a crisis happens, we can reconnect in many ways. The concern is moreso that we aren't spreading our resources evenly when a centralized form of networking trade would've done that.

Either way, Papaj is going to be connected next turn unless SOMEHOW the NPCs of that land can best a hero and longbowmen squad. I may need support though but it'll go well.

Also it doesn't seem like a thing to be able to trade research given the lack of results. Could I suggest a 'favor' system? As in, you trade something valuable, mark +1 to "Favors", and this'll be paid back in discussion later on. It's like bartering benefits for mutual win, since we're really not a free-for-all here.

[Criptfeind]

Either way, Papaj is going to be connected next turn unless SOMEHOW the NPCs of that land can best a hero and longbowmen squad. I may need support though but it'll go well.

How many longbow units are in your squad? Because if it's just one, that's a very weak attacking force.

Also I'm not sure what you mean by your concerned that trade hubs are decentralized as opposed to centralized, and what that means for spreading resources evenly. As far as I know, there's no mechanic to say that like... I don't get access to RulerOfNothings trade goods even though he's 7 hops away from me in the trade network.

Trading research and favor system? What does this mean? I'm not opposed to bartering for various things (but there's a limited amount of things in the game) but I'm not sure what you mean... Like a formalized "favor" system or something? I suppose some people might want to go for that... I'm going to stick to trading concrete things for concrete things (and in some ways ephemeral things for ephemeral things...)...

By the way, we never decided about trading diplomacy Tiruin. I didn't understand what you meant by "making it a loan on fermentation"

[Tiruin]

Either way, Papaj is going to be connected next turn unless SOMEHOW the NPCs of that land can best a hero and longbowmen squad. I may need support though but it'll go well.

How many longbow units are in your squad? Because if it's just one, that's a very weak attacking force.

It'd help if people bought my tech or gave me some money x.x I'll be paying them back and even giving free money later on when I'm more secure and able to help others, because I'm pretty much aiming to be a support nation here.
And yes it's just one :X
Apparently having 1,500 from caravan returns compared to the 1000 cost is pretty measly, considering the # of turns it takes to travel and hit.

By the way, we never decided about trading diplomacy Tiruin. I didn't understand what you meant by "making it a loan on fermentation"

I kinda realized that it's a bad tradeoff, efficiency wise. Weapons for fermentation--a permanent bonus to something situational, and spendy. >_< So you've got a boost to grab more land quicker, and I've got beer. Without the money to even make anything from it.

Trading research and favor system? What does this mean? I'm not opposed to bartering for various things (but there's a limited amount of things in the game) but I'm not sure what you mean... Like a formalized "favor" system or something? I suppose some people might want to go for that... I'm going to stick to trading concrete things for concrete things (and in some ways ephemeral things for ephemeral things...)...

Custom player currency thing "Favors" being the general term. It's pretty much your idea of concrete and ephemeral, but it's discussed and notarized by noting it as a 'favor', for 'favor owed'. So people actually HAVE a really big point to go to war with each other (but flavor fights is always good)

Also I'm not sure what you mean by your concerned that trade hubs are decentralized as opposed to centralized, and what that means for spreading resources evenly. As far as I know, there's no mechanic to say that like... I don't get access to RulerOfNothings trade goods even though he's 7 hops away from me in the trade network.

Kashyyk said somewhere back that you can trade with the friend of friend, but not anyone connected to them. Only to friends, and only to friends of friends.

Unless I misunderstand, you connecting to them...makes a new trade route? So that becomes a primary thing, and then you can then connect to those they're connected to?

Kashyyk: Help on trading please! How does it appear on the map if people make a trade route through their primary trade route to someone else? D:

Like A-B-C-D; A makes one to C. Can A then connect to D after?