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[Lenglon]

I don't have the bandwidth to follow your link Jack. Much sad is had.

[Jack A T]

It's the dead dove bag scene from Arrested Development, which I was quoting.  Pretty much my reaction.

[Tea]

FallacyofUrist is, uh. Thinking about the game like someone who expects to be around for a long time, for whatever reason?

 I can see where you're coming from with most of those things, not sure I agree with it finalising my read as strong a scumlean as you seem to get from it, but can you walk me through the bolded part?

I guess there's two main things that make me think that:
- The closest thing to a real stance on the game he has are theories about what to do later w/r/t doll
-> "If you're still alive D2, everybody's going to come after you hard. Including me. With that said... if you don't get suspicious, I'll be fine putting you onto a lower priority. / That said, saying "don't scum hunt me" is pretty suspicious... if not exactly suspicious in a normal manner. / *muses* Jester gambit?" <-- stream of consciousness to me here sounds kinda fake, lack of nuance in his follow-up on her actual content is bothersome to me in this post. Like, his "if you don't get suspicious" seems all talk no action.
-> "And don't ask me why I'm not using it on doll in response, because I'm answering that now: because doll has claimed she'll be dead D2. If she's not, you can expect(most likely) that my vote will go right onto her."

- Him putting a lot of depth into answers on how to scumhunt people's questions (throughout here & in the answer to Jack here) but not feeling bothered to get reads yet or apply any of his outlined theories later here - I feel like this post is made to paint a pretty picture of thoughts on the game more than it's made by someone really motivated to advance their understanding of the game short-term.

I thought deadline was a lot sooner than it actually is which weakens the read a bit. What drew me to him in the first place is an apparent overall vibe of nervous energy (prompted the alignment preference question) which is still present in his later posts.

[Pozzai]

... If you can be on in like four hours we're going to have a talk about that "emotionally detached" bit, because what. Among many other things.

 Hai, waddup?

[Tea]

I would be pretty surprised if Pozzai wasn't town, or some third party BS that's pretty close to town. I find the ~I have never had this much of a problem getting reads ever~ attitude really genuine (one good early example is here) even though he self-proclaims that "I feel like the majority of what has been said, including everything I've said, is NAI", but the way it continued into grumbling at Flabort for being an observer type + him saying he was annoyed that he read Jack's iso and got nothing out of it, is a good look. I also think his play around TBF and to a lesser extent doll has more nuance than is typical of Pozzai's forum scumrange. It's not really that he wouldn't likely be a mix of self-righteous/frustrated about the game state as any alignment (even though I do believe that he feels the things he's feeling because he is town), it's that there's also a clear desire to move the game forward and off-the-cuff-ness alongside that (most amusing example of the off-the-cuffness to me personally is that he just keeps using terminology unfamiliar to this site even though it's causing people to constantly side-eye him lmfao).

[Lenglon]

Just a quick side-question Tea, what is NAI short for? Context makes me think its Not Actually Informative but I dont really know.

[Pozzai]

Just a quick side-question Tea, what is NAI short for? Context makes me think its Not Actually Informative but I dont really know.

 Not Alignment Indicative.

[Lenglon]

Jack - Im having trouble following your case against Tea. I see the focus on your first post, the leading binary questions, etc, but I am having trouble making the final leap to scum. could you break down that last logical step for me?

[Tea]

... If you can be on in like four hours we're going to have a talk about that "emotionally detached" bit, because what. Among many other things.

 Hai, waddup?

Hi.

I feel like I've worn on my fucking sleeve that I have actively not enjoyed playing this game from the onset, but that I am still trying my best to get and give reads. Why I was grumpy in the first place - Jack asking me to react to something inorganic/meaningless - has lended itself to me having been implictly expected to spend hours each day since delving further into something I straight up said I did not want my experience in this game to be defined by. Your expectation that I would wake up and enjoy the game more is, uh, really misguided, though I appreciate the nuance that went into you trying to reaction test around it, I guess? Maybe? I don't feel at arms length; I feel like I'm here and drowning and like there's nowhere near enough hours in the day for me to respond to ~~questions~~ and actually, like, deeply read.

It's reassuring that you are coming around to the same thought about Leng as me albeit from different posts. Uh. I wanna take some deep breaths and discuss reads. I think.

[Jack A T]

Jack - Im having trouble following your case against Tea. I see the focus on your first post, the leading binary questions, etc, but I am having trouble making the final leap to scum. could you break down that last logical step for me?

Lenglon: It's the apparent disinterest in my alignment that's alarming.  The questions are careful, purposeful... and meant to find alignment irrelevance.  It's not a search for my alignment so much as a search for ways to not find my alignment.  Scum, even in third-party-heavy games like this, is quite a bit less interested in determining the alignments of others than town.  They'll question carefully and question well, but not first and foremost to discern alignments.  Thus, the behaviour is troubling.

PPE: Hm.  Reads might need adjusting soon.

[Lenglon]

That... still is a type of alignment search though. ass-backwards, maybe, but its better than RVS. I dont see how its scummy to search unusually, its still searching after all. am I still missing something?

[Tea]

KYOSN mod ninja!

... TolyK obv cult leader gambit.

Well, maybe.

Well, a vote is meant to be used. TolyK: What do you think the odds are that a cult leader might pass their conversion off as an expanding mason group?

Well, considering there's very little I could do to prove I'm not a cult leader, sans opening up all my cards, I would probably not care too much unless you were actively trying to lead the town to my lynch (and potentially succeeding). Since my death would probably be a setback for the town, I'd consider explaining my role in more detail to convince that I'm not a cult leader.

Interestingly, if Jack accepts the experiment, I could more or less prove to you specifically that I'm not a cult leader during this day. I would prefer not to, but I might if it comes to that.

Okay. Makes sense. But... to me specifically? Not people in general?

This interaction is another reason I don't like Fallacy. It starts off with some more stream of consciousness that I find forced, and then Fallacy forgot how he framed the initial question by the time it was answered.

[Pozzai]

Hi.

I feel like I've worn on my fucking sleeve that I have actively not enjoyed playing this game from the onset, but that I am still trying my best to get and give reads. Why I was grumpy in the first place - Jack asking me to react to something inorganic/meaningless - has lended itself to me having been implictly expected to spend hours each day since delving further into something I straight up said I did not want my experience in this game to be defined by. Your expectation that I would wake up and enjoy the game more is, uh, really misguided, though I appreciate the nuance that went into you trying to reaction test around it, I guess? Maybe? I don't feel at arms length; I feel like I'm here and drowning and like there's nowhere near enough hours in the day for me to respond to ~~questions~~ and actually, like, deeply read.

It's reassuring that you are coming around to the same thought about Leng as me albeit from different posts. Uh. I wanna take some deep breaths and discuss reads. I think.

 The only game I feel like is any kind of similar attitude to this was our last game together(and even that is a stretch) and clearly certain factors in this game makes that very different. In that game you also replaced out.

 Sure you might've not overly enjoyed the manner the game started, but I've seen you not appreciate a game before and finding joy in other places?

 I have never seen you so 'cold' before and I don't fucking know what to do with that?

 Why didn't you engage me for reads/discussion if you didn't like the way the game went ?

[Pozzai]

 Actually screap that last bit.

 Who do you think would be really interesting to you to figure out in terms of alignment, and why that one individual?

[Jack A T]

That... still is a type of alignment search though. ass-backwards, maybe, but its better than RVS. I dont see how its scummy to search unusually, its still searching after all. am I still missing something?

Lenglon: To put it more simply: the trappings of scumhunting on a search for null-tells.  If successful, it looks good at a glance but helps little with reads.  If failed, it looks good at a glance but helps little with reads.  Close to RVS in addition to town knowledge, but it looks helpful.

That being said, these last few posts are leading me to think an alignment-irrelevant motive may likely be the cause, and my vote has a growing chance of shifting after a response.