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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[RAM]

death ray.

If someone proposes a giant microwave gun, I am inclined to vote for it.

[Parsely]

CIWS Block 1A fires 20x105mm rounds at 4500 rpm and has a built-in radar that tracks the target and it's own munitions in order to do theoretically (CIWS has never been used in combat) do it's job, so I would consider these to be the very barest minimum requirements for this kind of point defense. The Sewing Machine has nowhere near that rate of fire and 40s radar can't even contribute to a reliable shoot down of a prop aircraft at 1 kilometer let alone a missile and you're expecting anti-missile capability in a single roll? This doesn't sound realistic.

The theoretical fire rate of Sewing Machine was at least 3000 RPM (if we just take original fire rate times four, IT REALLY SHOULDN'T BE SLOWER THAN THAT). The built-in radar is a thing we, yes, have to deal with. 40s radar SHOULD actually be decent at shooting down a jet aircraft at close ranges, (Shilka still uses fucking vacuum tubes for fucks sake, it's capabilities are way less futuristic for us than say, guided AAM should be). The problem with Sewing Machine is lack of said radar and apparently sub-optimal turning and guidance, which I blame on rolling a fucking 1. All of this except getting a dedicated radar for it is fixable in single revision, which is why the design should include a small and non-complex radar we can just link to the thing.

Consider that enemy ASM won't be doing any crazy shit and in all likelyhood won't be supersonic, so shooting them down will be about as hard as shooting down a jet that does no evasive maneuvers. After all, consider that CIWS deals with much better ASM than anything Cannalans are probable to make. I am not saying that this would be a 100% effective thing, but there is no other good way of defending yourself against an ASM (air interception is sub-optimal - even with better missiles you need a plane that's ready all the time to get behind the ASM and intercept it, which on a battlefield would be really fucking hard).

It's difficult to take you seriously since you're like, losing your mind over this, but that actually makes sense.

[RAM]

If we have automated turrets, could we revise them onto deathballs?

[Madman198237]

I want the gunship, because BIAS. But also because it'll be capable of shredding helicopters (although why the heck the Haast doesn't do that already....well let's just say BIAS SENSEI QUIT BEING BIASED TOWARDS COLD WAR DESIGNS) and generally wreaking ground-support havoc wherever and whenever we need it. Hopefully it'd be enough for the jungle, and pretty much everywhere else. Making a SAM version of the Artemis should be a revision. Slap some rocket boosters (they don't even need to detach, I'd think) to the sides of our Piracy Warning missiles and throw those on the back of an Artemis truck, then let fly whenever the Cannalans get close.

[Sensei]

Hey man I've been really lenient, don't make me invoke Rule 3:

3. Do not accuse me of being biased. Do not accuse me of being biased. I have been told that I am biased towards the Arstotzkans, biased towards the Moskurgs, biased towards the Juraki, and biased towards the Cannalans. I have been told that I am bending the rules to make the game last longer, I have been told that I am bending the rules to end the game quicker. On multiple occasions this has nearly derailed the game. I have absolutely no more patience for this, and if you do it YOU WILL BE BANNED.

You should be happy I didn't go for the first-glance "play it like the J-CATCH trials say" approach and have the helicopters decimate planes for some reason, like a lot of people wanted me to.

[evictedSaint]

UF-RDN-44-5 "Floodlight"

"Cannala did it.  How hard could it be?"
     -Naasif al-Zamani, Junior Research Assistant

The United Forenian Radar Mk 5 "Floodlight" is Forenia's fifth and third attempt at both decent radar and radar targeting, respectively. 

Abandoning the ill-suited name of "Death Ray", the Floodlight is a decomplexified form of radar that relies on Traveling-Wave Tubes for a clearer picture, from which targeting data can then be acquired and fed into an appropriate weapons system.  This includes ballistics calculations and account for target velocity, projectile velocity, angle, drop, and average windspeed, to name the basics.  The Floodlight's higher resolution and cheaper cost is intended to make it more viable for our current radar-using equipment.

• Cheaper radar makes it more readily available in the field to detect things like incoming air attacks or ships.
• The Saltseeker should have more accurate distance readings, reducing the likelihood of over/undershoots.
• The Long Shot should have more precise targeting data, allowing shore and ship batteries to land shots quicker and more reliably.
• The Very Very Frightening should be able to mount the Floodlight without cost increases, making air-born radar available at Expensive levels.
• The Sewing Machine should be able to use the cheaper Floodlight, along with its more accurate target painting and targeting guidance.
• All ships should be able to mount the Floodlight, allowing for greater coordination and targeting.
• If possible, the Reckless Effect should be able to mount larger radar mountings for greater battle picture than the VVF.

The basic "Truck-Style" ground-based radar is to be mounted on an Artemis truckbed, to allow set-up to be quick and easy as well as allowing it to be deployed in less-friendly terrains.

[Madman198237]

Hey man I've been really lenient, don't make me invoke Rule 3:

3. Do not accuse me of being biased. Do not accuse me of being biased. I have been told that I am biased towards the Arstotzkans, biased towards the Moskurgs, biased towards the Juraki, and biased towards the Cannalans. I have been told that I am bending the rules to make the game last longer, I have been told that I am bending the rules to end the game quicker. On multiple occasions this has nearly derailed the game. I have absolutely no more patience for this, and if you do it YOU WILL BE BANNED.

You should be happy I didn't go for the first-glance "play it like the J-CATCH trials say" approach and have the helicopters decimate planes for some reason, like a lot of people wanted me to.

I...kinda figured that it was obviously in a not-serious tone. Because it was obviously in a not-serious tone, insofar as tone exists in text.

[Powder Miner]

eS, I don’t think that the problem with our radar aiming mechanisms is our radar, I think it’s that the radar gun directors just don’t fuckin work. If you can think up an improved-radar-integrated aiming system that’d be better. As is I just don’t think this is worth doing a design instead of a revision.

[evictedSaint]

It is an improved radar-integrated-aiming system.  It has decomplexified radar and working targeting. 

Considering it's basically two designs plus a decomplexification, I'd say it's absolutely worth a Design.

[Sensei]

[words]

Apologies, I got tired of arguing with the Cannalans today already.

[Kot]

Rule 3

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Sensei wants to ban Forenians what a bias, wow.

I want the gunship, because BIAS. But also because it'll be capable of shredding helicopters (although why the heck the Haast doesn't do that already....well let's just say BIAS SENSEI QUIT BEING BIASED TOWARDS COLD WAR DESIGNS) and generally wreaking ground-support havoc wherever and whenever we need it. Hopefully it'd be enough for the jungle, and pretty much everywhere else. Making a SAM version of the Artemis should be a revision. Slap some rocket boosters (they don't even need to detach, I'd think) to the sides of our Piracy Warning missiles and throw those on the back of an Artemis truck, then let fly whenever the Cannalans get close.

The plane gunship will just die to everything and all. Spectres and Spookies got shot down by as little as 37mm AA guns, and Cannalans have bigger and better ones, not to mention actual AAMs, so the plane will just die wherever and whenever we use it. The concept relies on being able to fly over the enemy which can't do shit - frontline Vietnamese who never seen a SAM in their lifetime, or I dunno, Taliban who get caught by suprise, and sadly, blame it on this being an Arms Race or on Sensei biaz, Cannalans do have perfectly fine (at least against propeller planes) AA systems, even discounting the missiles (would they even guide onto prop planes? Maybe not...), which would reduce the usefulness of the system a lot.

As far as the "Floodlight" goes, it's not a bad idea either, but while it FINALLY (or not, because dice biaz) gives us decent radar, it really doesn't serve a clear combat purpose aside from just making whatever we have better, and in certain cases it's not much, since Sewing Machine would require a revision, making it rotate faster and maybe have an armoured Salamander version with the radar included with one vehicle, to unlock it's true potential (and won't help against ASM by itself, since >Sensei >Dice and we don't have it on our ships). I still think a proper, good, amazing SAM missile would be really useful (at least until Cannalans develop proper countermeasures to it) because it would make every Cannalan aircraft that gets over our airspace shot down, (including the bombers, so if Cannalans don't make a cruise missile then they might drop the nuke into fucking ocean, unexploded), which will help IMMENSELY on EVERY FRONT, because FORENIA RULE THE SKIES.

[Cnidaros]

UFAF-AGS-44 'Endless Vigil' [with research credit]: (1) Madman
UF-GAM-44 "Noose" [with research credit]: (2) Kot, Cnidaros

Alright, you've convinced me. Although I think we should spend the revision on something for the jungle, such as stealing their Aswang. Or radar decomplexing, if for some reason this doesn't go through with the Noose.

[NAV]

UFAF-AGS-44 'Endless Vigil' [with research credit]: (1) Madman
UF-GAM-44 "Noose" [with research credit]: (3) Kot, Cnidaros, NAV

I like the endless vigil more, but its just not practical.

[ConscriptFive]

AC-130's are for Third World curb-stomping, and would get shot down instantaneously by a "near-peer adversary" in a total war.  No matter how many guns and countermeasures you stick on low-flying a cargo-plane, it's still an easy target for anything with a shred of AA capability, as well as ground fire.

Kot's SAM and SAM launcher follows the Artemis and Saltseeker tech perfectly, fills a role we've been short on, and should finally decomplex our RADAR.  What's there not to like?

UFAF-AGS-44 'Endless Vigil' [with research credit]: (1) Madman
UF-GAM-44 "Noose" [with research credit]: (4) Kot, Cnidaros, NAV, ConscriptFive

[Kot]

What's there not to like?

Kot's

Probably, lul.