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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

More variants, because I'm a bloody mad man.


UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern C
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a 110mm sliding block breach cannon as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and another UF-AC41 in a commander cupola turret with a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia above it.  The turret is armored with 160mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Super Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 120mm sloped RHA (Extra Heavy), has 85mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads, as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 8 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.  (Very expensive first turn, but historically Canalla has needed a Massive Naval Advantage to land in the north, not something I think they will get in one turn, so this is likely to drop to Expensive)

UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern D
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a 110mm sliding block breach cannon as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and another UF-AC41 in a commander cupola turret with a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia above it.  The turret is armored with 120mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Extra Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 90mm sloped RHA (Heavy), has 70mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 7 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.

UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern E
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a shortened B2 Destroyer modified to use a sliding block breach as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and another UF-AC41 in a commander cupola turret with a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia above it.  The turret is armored with 160mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Super Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 120mm sloped RHA (Extra Heavy), has 85mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads, as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 8 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.  (Very expensive first turn, but historically Canalla has needed a Massive Naval Advantage to land in the north, not something I think they will get in one turn, so this is likely to drop to Expensive)

UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern F
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a shortened B2 Destroyer modified to use a sliding block breach as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and another UF-AC41 in a commander cupola turret with a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia above it.  The turret is armored with 120mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Extra Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 90mm sloped RHA (Heavy), has 70mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 7 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.

UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern G
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a shortened B2 Destroyer as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and another UF-AC41 in a commander cupola turret with a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia above it.  The turret is armored with 160mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Super Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 120mm sloped RHA (Extra Heavy), has 85mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads, as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 8 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.  (Very expensive first turn, but historically Canalla has needed a Massive Naval Advantage to land in the north, not something I think they will get in one turn, so this is likely to drop to Expensive)

UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern H
A Heavy Tank, this monster utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a shortened B2 Destroyer as its primary armament mounted within a electronic traversal turret, with a shell-ejector system added to allow for quicker reloading.  The tank is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and another UF-AC41 in a commander cupola turret with a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia above it.  The turret is armored with 120mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Extra Heavy), and while the main body is not armored to the same degree, it's frontal hull is still heavily armored with 90mm sloped RHA (Heavy), has 70mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy), and has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the base of the turret and the treads as well as being utilized as the size of the tank's spaced armor (Medium).  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems, as well as some other internal parts, are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 7 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.

UF-TD-42 "Endbringer"  Pattern B
A Tank Destroyer that utilizes a large V12 engine.  It uses a casemated 150mm gun taken from the UFN-CA-41 Catraphract.  The tank destroyer is also armed with a coaxial mounted UF-AC41 and another UF-AC41 in a commander cupola turret with a pintle mounted M3 Sorraia above it.  The front is armored with 160mm of sloped Rolled Homogenous Armor (Super Heavy), and has 85mm of armor upon the sides and rear hull (Heavy).  It has 40mm of armor in armored skirts protecting the treads  The armored skirts are made of Manganese steel alloy and the piping for the coolant systems are composed of Aluminium.

Target Cost: 7 Ore (1 Mn, 1 Al), 4 Oil.

Spoiler: Commander Cupola Turret with a pintle mounted gun (click to show/hide)

Oh, and votebox:

2 RDN-41-3 Deadliest Ray Mk. DEADLY: evictedSaint, Madman
8 UF-ERA-42 'Blood Eagle': Powder Miner, Jilladilla, NAV , 10ebbor10, Piratejoe, Stabby, Kashyyk, Kot
3 UF-MT-41 'Demolisher': Andrea, Taricus, voidslayer
1 UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern C: Zanzetkuken

May as well go for broke.  Even if it ends up as Very Expensive after we get the Ore, thing would probably still be able to fight off multiple Bulls at once so there's no real loss.  If it turns Expensive with the Ore?  We have a tank produced on a large scale that it would be nightmarish for Canalla to beat, especially with our air power advantage.

[NAV]

There is no way I'm gonna play spot the difference between all those variants.

[andrea]

There is no way I'm gonna play spot the difference between all those variants.

[stabbymcstabstab]

There is no way I'm gonna play spot the difference between all those variants.

[piratejoe]

Personally, I like all the ones with 160 turret armour....Now I'm torn between blood eagle improving everything, and having a badass tank....I want both.

[RAM]

110mm sliding block more armour
110mm slifding block less armour
B2 sliding block more armour
B2 sliding block less armour
B2 more armour
N2 less armour
150mm

I think that people are putting too much emphasis on calibre for penetration. I am no expert but I am under the impression that penetration is more of a factor of how big an explosion is pushing the bullet and how long the barrel is to keep pushing it. Large calibre shells are typically proportional. a 150mm round will be about 50% longer than a 100mm round and typically shot out of a longer barrel. There is certainly something to be said for mass displacement, and the heavier the bullet the more energy it can store at the same velocity, but still... A 7mm rifle round will generally penetrate *MUCH* more than a 9mm pistol round... I as actually serious about using an 8mm railgun against light armoured vehicles. Calibre is a decent rule-of-thumb, but I would expect that we could make a 40mm round that can go through a Bull. It would probably be something ridiculous with a 12 metre barrel and a multi-stage propellant charge but still, it might be worth it just to see the looks on their faces from a 40mm gun putting holes clean through their heaviest land vehicle...

[evictedSaint]

don't forget that caliber affects range.  larger rounds tend to move slower and drop "faster", but have more killing power at longer ranges than a lighter round.

caliber is also important for overmatching; rule of thumb is that the round can penetrate armor at any angle if the thickness of the armor is half that of the round.  it essentially negates "effective thickness" of angled armor.

[Kot]

There is more to it.
Explosive power, thus, HEAT effectiveness is proportional to caliber, which is why you can have very low velocity cannon which still penetrates everything.

Modern cannons are usually somewhere around 120mm (NATO tank guns, such as German Rheinmetall, also used in Abrams) or 125mm (Warsaw Pact and derivatives), but they use APDS and such, which means using a really thin and small, but really hard dart to penetrate the fuck out of enemy.


Now, this isin't post-war yet, which is why, IMO, we have two (well, three or four, but eh) ways to do it:
1) Use a fuckoff big gun with HEAT that just blasts it's way through. It's Soviet way, it's way of 122mm IS-2 and 152mm ISU-152. We could use the 100mm artillery cannon in first case (because we don't really have anything closer to 122mm), and 150mm naval cannon in second, but that'd probably mean we'd have to use casemate, or make some sort of crazy fucking KV-2.
2) We use a smaller, yet still bigger than our current, gun. Probably the 90mm AA gun, which should give us excellent performance, as evidenced by other similar sized AA guns made into
very good tank guns. This is also, I think, best option.
3) We create an unholy abomination of lengthened 75mm cannon like the insane fucking 75mm KwK 42 L/100, basically beating them with a longer dick. However, longer dick brings some problems with bending the barrel and it being unwieldy and in general, there is only so much you can do with a caliber before it becomes ridiculous.
3.5) We could also make a squeezebore 75mm or actually attempt at APDS, but both of those trade killing power for penetration.

[Madman198237]

The best option is Flak-88 all the way.

Unless you do RADAR! Which puts us on the path to aerial radar, aerial intercept radar, and even radar-guided antishipping missiles, which are literally going to be death to navies.

We mount ASWs in a heavy bomber and just start chuckin', suddenly Cannala doesn't really have a navy.

Or we go the DIRECT route, and deploy a supersonic testbed (Trading ALL combat utility, I hope, for easier times on later supersonics) aircraft, followed by a supersonic attacker meant to drop huge Tiny Tim-esque rockets into the sides of ships faster than the AAA can hit it.

[RAM]

I am really torn this round. I really qute desperately want to work on our antishipping missiles, because shipping is gross. Right now though, there is this nasty puss-filled welt on our front that is disconcerting and we don't have much of an answer to their heavier tanks. I tried proposing a paradropping tank destroyer, but nooooo. There are proposals for a tank but, ugh, so boring... I'm too lazy to do up a 40mm half-kilogram railgun... And railguns probably need a technology design to overcome nobody bothering to make them for decades...

E.R.A. isn't terrible but, ehh... They have that 30mm autocannon. It'll probably strip off E.R.A. pretty quickly. Sure, fighting somethign that you can't beat so that someone who CAN beat it can swoop in and steal the glory is nobodies' idea of a serene vocation, but, like, there is a risk that it ends up with a massive logistical hassle, and how will it increase our knowhow? Meh, Imma crawl into a hole and pray for a shiny new high explosive to come out of this. A new boom to play with would be something...

[evictedSaint]

To be fair, their 30 mm has a slower traverse and fire rate than our 20 mm.  And it punches through our slamander just fine.  ERA will help keep the salamander alive just fine, and if the raider goes up against a tank it still dies either way.

Not denying that a new tank or era would be effective, but I still think pocket radar is our best investment.

[RAM]

3 RDN-41-3 Deadliest Ray Mk. DEADLY: evictedSaint, Madman, RAM
8 UF-ERA-42 'Blood Eagle': Powder Miner, Jilladilla, NAV , 10ebbor10, Piratejoe, Stabby, Kashyyk, Kot
3 UF-MT-41 'Demolisher': Andrea, Taricus, voidslayer
1 UF-HT-42 "Annihilator" Pattern C: Zanzetkuken

I think that, given the sensibilities of Arms Race, the air-droppable tank-destroyer would be a good(and timely) design, and that the nay-sayers are all just tragically caught up in the antics of people who never perfected Death-Ball Technology(Although we ought to revise a jet-powered version with longer range... and add some aluminium armour because it burns!)... But I am super-greedy for guided anti-ship missiles, so blegh!

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Here's a very evil thought for a way to even out the armor situation.  We make this, then mount it inside a tank, or develop it as being a variant to our existing, akin to their Daybreaker cannon.  55mm HEAT at 300 rounds per minute.

[RAM]

You would want a very much longer barrel, and probably more powerful shells. Throw in some optics and turn it into a full-turret design for an existing tank... All that would likely drop the rate of fire a touch, but it'd still be high enough...

I kindof thought about suggesting a 40mm ludicrous-velocity autocannon with maybe 180 R.P.M. but then decided not to because that would steal the thunder of railguns...

[Kot]

hurr durr railguns...

Okay, uh, what do you propose to use as the power source for our railguns, especially since you intend to mount them on vehicles?