Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

Well... Personally I think Minas Ithil is kind of doomed and you lose that portion of the game.

So that should explain somewhat the role humans play.

[Dunamisdeos]

So like, I am a huge LOTR purist. I bitch about the movies and everything and quote the silmarillion to my friends. I recognize this about myself, and have to go into things like SoM with the knowledge that it will not adhere to canon.

That said I really liked SoM. I liked it for the nemesis system, and how it really captured the outright brutality of the orcs like it is portrayed in the books. Not even the movies accomplished that quite as well. I like the nemesis system *a lot* because it let you really dig into that whole concept.

So for me, I would totally be down with a more polished version of the same with an expanded nemesis system. And if they went "full-on inglorious basterds" I'd be cool with that so long as I knew about it beforehand. It only bothers me when they advertise it as totes mcgotes LOTR and turns out to be the Hobbit movies.

[Jacob/Lee]

The Mithril Edition of the game ($300 USD, about €275) sold out already. Like most of those things, it's really a collector's piece, including items like a cloth map of Mordor and a statue. What's interesting to me is what the lesser packages are supposed to contain - what is a gold/silver/mithril "war chest?" The most compelling speculation I've heard is that it's a collection of unique items/runes, like how everyone who pre-ordered SoM was given a unique and pretty strong rune based on where they bought it from. Those "unique" items will probably be flogged separately as DLC one day like the first game's. I suppose it's expected at this point, since every big title seems to have its planned DLC lined up on launch day.

I think a modern dev could assemble a beefy DLC, call it an "expansion pack," and sell gangbusters to the people who were gaming when such things still existed.

[Neonivek]

Nothing you get in the Warchests are things you cannot obtain in game.

It is basically an early game power boost.

[Egan_BW]

Sold as DLC, yes. Isn't the future wonderful?

[Neonivek]

Sold as DLC, yes. Isn't the future wonderful?

Well, we don't know if the Warchests are going to be sold as DLC later. Then again Fallout 3 and I think New Vegas also sold "early game power ups" for money.

[Chiefwaffles]

Y'know, I actually hate those types of DLC that Fallout 3 and New Vegas have. I get the stuff in games occasionally because of things like buying the complete editions. And It's awful.
You get all these items and the like which just ruin the early game if you use them and don't work anywhere else after they're quickly outpaced by better things.

I'd prefer regular microtranscations because at least the developer is usually putting some kind of thought in implementing it. Rather than making a new model, giving it midgame stats and giving it to the players for free right as they start.

[Ludorum Rex]

I remember years ago when I still worked in the AAA industry and micro-transactions as a concept was a new thing. A lot of studios back then were really keen on adding micro-transactions for (essentially) cheats - ie ammunition refill, better weapons, extra re-spawns, and even outright skipping parts of a game. And mind you this wasn't a "evil publisher suits" thing, a lot of game designers were completely infatuated with this idea. Due to the outcry when "pay for ammo" was added to some space shooter (the title escapes me) a lot of studios/designers dropped their plans for this. But I always got the feeling this was to avoid backlash, not because they felt the idea itself had been invalidated. Seeing the concept gradually creeping into a lot of games confirms this.

I think this is the result of having game designers who don't actually like playing the games, but who are in this (as consumers and as creators) for the aesthetics and story. Not that there is anything wrong with enjoying games in this way, it just creates some problems when they have to design games that are also fun for the "core" gamers, who place a much higher value on the actual gameplay and level of challenge. Being able to buy cheats (or even getting them as a pre-order/CE bonus) negatively impacts the integrity of game-play for this group, and the "non-core" game designers find this difficult to understand.

TL;DR: There are game designers who think paying for cheats is good design, which will not only bring in more revenue, but also make the game better.

[Neonivek]

Even if it was good design it would probably fall under bad practice (anti-consumer practice).

Since people who actually want to "play" the game are being deprived of a genuine experience because you can pay to win. While people who don't want to "play" the game have to pay to support their own playstyle.

 

not because they felt the idea itself had been invalidated.

Probably one of the worst feelings of being a gamer that has sort of creeped into my mind is that I feel like the only reason why game developers (well publishers/producers) don't pull half the stuff they pull is because we don't let them... and that they are continuously trying to find ways to sneak things by our heads to make a bit more money but not to make a better product.

It is this just constant low buzzing of "Come on, it is only a few extra bucks"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Super Smash Bros Wii U is a interesting example. Since for the longest time people have been criticizing the "pro" (AKA: People who actually play the game... and try to be good at it... in anyway) crowd for essentially trying to force the game to be the way they want it and that it wasn't a fighting game and couldn't be balanced. In spite of the fact that all they wanted was a cohesive moveset and for the game to even attempt balance.

Lo and behold they came out with DLC characters and... they are balanced (arguably) and for the most part well made and even get updates. So... Why can't the entire game be like that?

[Fewah]

Due to the outcry when "pay for ammo" was added to some space shooter (the title escapes me) a lot of studios/designers dropped their plans for this.

Dead Space I believe it was.

[Retropunch]

not because they felt the idea itself had been invalidated.

Probably one of the worst feelings of being a gamer that has sort of creeped into my mind is that I feel like the only reason why game developers (well publishers/producers) don't pull half the stuff they pull is because we don't let them... and that they are continuously trying to find ways to sneak things by our heads to make a bit more money but not to make a better product.

It is this just constant low buzzing of "Come on, it is only a few extra bucks"
]

Agreed, it feels like at some point the dam is just going to break and they're going to finally say 'pay for every item and to complete the level'. It's like they're barely, barely being held back and are only managing not to go fully mental with DLC and cash grabs because jusssssttt enough people are making some noise.

That being said, one thing that continues to hearten me is the quality of 'indie' games these days (in terms of, not by a big AAA company, not indie as in 'RETRO PIXEL EVERYTHING'). It's only in the last 2-3 years that they've started to catch up to mainstream games, but they're really getting there and they nearly all are against DLC shenanigans. I think that will eventually start pushing AAA companies in the other direction a bit. Well, we can hope anyway.

[nenjin]

While I can't point to anything specific to date, I think we're reaching the point where some indies become so successful they start thinking like AAA developers and publishers.

Well, scrap that, I have a great example: Double Fine.

[Dunamisdeos]

I mean, my solution is "Don't buy from them".

I don't buy EA games anymore, period, because I know that it is 100% inevitable that they will [gently caress me from behind] at some point.

I don't buy Ubisoft anymore after X: Rebirth and that time they intentionally oops accidentally deleted all my saves from Black Flag just as another AC title came out.

There are plenty of examples of absurd DLC/Pay to play options. I play Contest of Champions, and they just started a "special" that allows you to SPEND A HUNDRED DOLLARS for partial progress towards unlocking a random top-tier character to play as. You would have to spend THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS in order to ensure that you get one random top-tier character.

Then there's the most recent Deus Ex game that applied DLC towards one (just one) of your existing save files.

Don't buy things from these people. You validate their practices.

[Retropunch]

I mean, my solution is "Don't buy from them".

I don't buy EA games anymore, period, because I know that it is 100% inevitable that they will [gently caress me from behind] at some point.

I don't buy Ubisoft anymore after X: Rebirth and that time they intentionally oops accidentally deleted all my saves from Black Flag just as another AC title came out.

There are plenty of examples of absurd DLC/Pay to play options. I play Contest of Champions, and they just started a "special" that allows you to SPEND A HUNDRED DOLLARS for partial progress towards unlocking a random top-tier character to play as. You would have to spend THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS in order to ensure that you get one random top-tier character.

Then there's the most recent Deus Ex game that applied DLC towards one (just one) of your existing save files.

Don't buy things from these people. You validate their practices.

Whilst I agree, in some cases I actually like the game itself and want to support the making of the game. I struggled for a while with that, but recently I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a large gaming company and they were saying that from what they can tell, the BI analysts are really, really closely monitoring base game sales vs base game + DLC sales and that it's obvious when DLC plans are hindering rather than helping the game (steam reviews, negative press etc.).

I got TW:Warhammer on the super humble bundle sale, and will not be getting any of the DLC - said so in my review, and in a very, very small way hope it sends a message that 'the game is good, DLC cash grabs suck and that's why you're on 'mixed''

[Dunamisdeos]

I mean, my solution is "Don't buy from them".

I don't buy EA games anymore, period, because I know that it is 100% inevitable that they will [gently caress me from behind] at some point.

I don't buy Ubisoft anymore after X: Rebirth and that time they intentionally oops accidentally deleted all my saves from Black Flag just as another AC title came out.

There are plenty of examples of absurd DLC/Pay to play options. I play Contest of Champions, and they just started a "special" that allows you to SPEND A HUNDRED DOLLARS for partial progress towards unlocking a random top-tier character to play as. You would have to spend THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS in order to ensure that you get one random top-tier character.

Then there's the most recent Deus Ex game that applied DLC towards one (just one) of your existing save files.

Don't buy things from these people. You validate their practices.

Whilst I agree, in some cases I actually like the game itself and want to support the making of the game. I struggled for a while with that, but recently I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a large gaming company and they were saying that from what they can tell, the BI analysts are really, really closely monitoring base game sales vs base game + DLC sales and that it's obvious when DLC plans are hindering rather than helping the game (steam reviews, negative press etc.).

I got TW:Warhammer on the super humble bundle sale, and will not be getting any of the DLC - said so in my review, and in a very, very small way hope it sends a message that 'the game is good, DLC cash grabs suck and that's why you're on 'mixed''

I can respect that. And it does seem like feedback about the problem is getting back to the companies more these days. I still won't buy from them until I see that practice gone. There's plenty of other stuff to play, and the only way I have to protest is with my wallet.

Anyway this Shadow of Waggh looks good and imam prob buy it.