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Author Topic: Middle-earth: Shadow of War  (Read 75264 times)

nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #645 on: October 12, 2017, 07:10:10 pm »

Fortress assaults suffer from the same problem as attacking a warchief in SoM: you can make it too easy on yourself by doing all the work. If you dominate every captain in the region and take out all the warchiefs before your assault then yes, fort assaults are going to be an exercise in point capture and killing grunts and little else.

In all the videos they would take out a warchief or two but leave the rest intact. When they have siege beasts and poison/fire wall spouts and active beastmaster captains, or any captains with gangs for that matter, then assaults are a little crazier.

But as with SoM, over preparation is kind of the death of fun in SoW.

As for whether or not SoW is easier than SoM.....it's yes and no to me.

On the one hand, your average captain is harder to kill than in SoM. They adapt, they often have gangs even as low level scrubs and every other motherfucker in this game is carrying a Defender shield.

On the other though I feel like you have more room to breathe. I remember just getting chain struck in SoM to the point I couldn't escape. Guys would hit me in melee, spears and arrows would come after, and so by the time you decided you needed to get out of there it was already too late sometimes. In SoW, that feels like it happens less often. For one, I don't think grunt ranged troops are as nasty in SoM; they do less damage for sure, and so there's less of "Three hunters at the edge of the fight sniping you and taking all your health between them in a few seconds." I feel like I ignore hunters and archers for longer in SoW than in SoM. Secondly, between bodyguards and Forgrim or whatever his name is, there's a good chance of surviving "no chance" captains. (Hell your backup tends to kill the enemy captains every time anyways.) Thirdly, last chance is just straight easier to do in SoM. You just have to hit a button prompt during a generous window of opportunity. No more moving the joystick and hitting a button. So you almost never fail those. Fourth, you just have so much more mobility and escape velocity. Click left stick to burn a trivial amount of focus so you can wraith sprint on command? DON'T MIND IF I DO. Getting to a higher elevation and double jumping your way out of trouble is super easy. You rarely get caught while climbing anymore because you can wraith jump up walls so much faster than you could climb in SoM. The only time I ever get shot or struck off a wall is when there's an aggroed enemy standing next to the ledge; you can't stealth kill him or grab him from the ledge during open combat, so he basically body blocks you from climbing up off the wall.

And lastly, being able to summon a beast or your best orc captain gives you breathing room in SoM you're not used to having. I've been trying to avoid summoning backup until it's really necessary, and for the most part it hasn't been. Unless the captain is a real, total SOB.

So in balance it feels easier to stay alive while not necessarily being easier to kill captains. Any fight I have with a serious captain tend to take a good few minutes, I'm often having to run away and heal or am kiting him, one or more additional captains and 20 grunts across the area as I whittle them down one by one. 1v1 fights against an adapted captain with a defender shield are kind of nail biter affairs because almost nothing works on them. You have to start relying on environmental hazards once he's adapted to half your wraith shit. And if they decide to enrage, well.....good luck trying to do much of anything while they continually rush you doing unparryable attacks.

That said, it is far easier to fight a captain to the point they're ready to be dominated than it is to try to kill them outright. Dominating in general is stupidly easy now even before you get all the upgrades, and I swear some captains that are on that last bit of life take an inordinate amount of damage before they'll actually die. And then they might defy death right there on the spot and regen half their life. They might be a self-healer as well. By far the hardest fights I've had are when I'm trying to kill captains rather than dominate them. And I feel like it was the other way around in SoM.

Unrelated question: has anyone seen the DLC Slaughter and Outcast tribes? I got the silver edition but haven't seen them anywhere. Their legendary gear sets don't even show up in the inventory screen alongside the rest of the tribes. Do they only show up later in game or in the end game or is it not even released yet.....? So confusing.

Lastly, can anyone get a handle on region bonuses based on who you've made overlord of a region? I know every tribe grants a visual look to everything, some totems or beast objects or whatever....but they mentioned several times during the livestreams that the Marauder tribe gave you a bonus to all cash that dropped in the region. I don't see any of this info listed anywhere though and I assume the other tribes have to grant some sort of passive bonus as well....right?

As I've been playing through and putting the stuff hyped in livestreams to the test.....I'm finding a lot of it feels incomplete or woefully under-explained.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 08:53:20 pm by nenjin »
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Egan_BW

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #646 on: October 13, 2017, 12:40:32 am »

Last Chance is just hitting a button now? So they made it impossible to fail?
I liked the way it worked in SoM. Almost made the QTE something exciting and hard.
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nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #647 on: October 13, 2017, 12:44:12 am »

I believe successive Last Chances make the radius you have to be inside before you press the button smaller, and it ticks down a little faster. But otherwise yeah, it's pretty much impossible to fail. You don't keep getting them indefinitely either, but if you're only going down once or twice a fight, you pretty much won't die to anything except No Chance.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 01:07:50 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Cthulhu

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #648 on: October 13, 2017, 03:20:08 am »

The game definitely starts to buckle under its own weight in places.  I'm not impressed by sieges.  Allied captains aren't as interesting as the trailers made them seem.

I finally rode a drake and it barely works.  It got stuck in mid-air or glitched out no less than three times in less than a minute.
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nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #649 on: October 13, 2017, 08:38:05 am »

Drakes handle like shit, it's true.

I think the trick is this: either they're gliding and you have to aim them up or down, or you're stationary using the flame blast and strafe side to side and slowly move up and down.

But yeah, every time I've used a drake I either end up slamming into the ceiling or into the ground trying to fly around.

Also, all the Celebrimbro memory quests involving beasts seem unreasonably hard to get the best score. Caragor, Drake and Graug, I haven't done one where I even came close to the top score, while I aced all the rest.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 09:25:11 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

scriver

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #650 on: October 13, 2017, 09:43:35 am »

Is the Caragor one you mean the one with the three groups of orcs you need to kill before the time runs out? Because yeah, I found that one very hard, failed it a lot before finally licking out and finishing with less than ten seconds left. The Drake-in-thhe-harbour one was pretty hard too since if you aren't fast enough they'll blow up the explosive barrels and crates you need to fulfil the "explode-X-amounexplode-X-amount-of-orcs objective. The Graug mission with the Ice Graug and the ghoulkilling was pretty straight forward and easy, just gotta use the Ice Breath.

Those are the only missions I've done involving animals so far, at last that I can remember.
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nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #651 on: October 13, 2017, 10:35:12 am »

The "race the drakes to kill orcs" was easy, did it in one run. But yeah, the one where there's like 5 groups of guys and you need to kill them all with a caragor, the graug one (where I think it's just a normal graug and not an ice graug) and the one where you ride a drake inside a cavern and have to kill 35 guys all seem way hard to me.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Fewah

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #652 on: October 13, 2017, 01:01:52 pm »

My biggest disappointment with the game is 2 things.

1. Fortress assault are nothing like advertised.
The fact that you basically need to limit yourself gameplay wise and not kill the warchiefs just to simulate a good fortress assault is silly.

2. Warchiefs dont replace?! WHY, Why when I kill Warchief does he not replace? This limits my gameplay so much, because killing a warchief completely downgrades a fortress assault.

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scriver

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #653 on: October 13, 2017, 07:21:12 pm »

Protip: If your coolest follower has a blood brother on Sauron's side, he'll totally betray you to revenge him.
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Kagus

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #654 on: October 13, 2017, 07:28:26 pm »

Obviously the solution there is to send your half of the blood pact into battle against insurmountable odds, and have the other brother fight the uruk who finally makes the kill!

...except that probably wouldn't work, now would it.

scriver

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #655 on: October 13, 2017, 07:34:11 pm »

...Next time I'll send that captain to kill their blood brother and see what happens.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #656 on: October 13, 2017, 07:34:33 pm »

Do rando Uruks that kill your followers get promoted to captainhood?
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nenjin

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #657 on: October 14, 2017, 03:43:40 am »

Do rando Uruks that kill your followers get promoted to captainhood?

No, the only act that raises a rando to captainhood is killing you. And that does not apply to Undead orcs, either.

So the Fighting Pits are hella fun. I could do this all day. Way faster than trying to get them to level up through the Nemesis system, but also a lot more dangerous. Gotta pick smart match ups that play to strengths and weaknesses if you don't want your guys to die.

Also, your own orcs can team up against hostile orcs in the region during Nemesis missions, where one of your followers might be chasing the hostile orc, then another one or two of your followers box them in from another direction. I have one guy named Mozu the Rash who constantly seems to be double teaming hostile orcs or invading two hostile orcs' Nemesis mission trying to kill them both. Good times.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Vgray

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #658 on: October 14, 2017, 03:51:59 am »

Do rando Uruks that kill your followers get promoted to captainhood?

No, the only act that raises a rando to captainhood is killing you. And that does not apply to Undead orcs, either.

So the Fighting Pits are hella fun. I could do this all day. Way faster than trying to get them to level up through the Nemesis system, but also a lot more dangerous. Gotta pick smart match ups that play to strengths and weaknesses if you don't want your guys to die.

Also, your own orcs can team up against hostile orcs in the region during Nemesis missions, where one of your followers might be chasing the hostile orc, then another one or two of your followers box them in from another direction. I have one guy named Mozu the Rash who constantly seems to be double teaming hostile orcs or invading two hostile orcs' Nemesis mission trying to kill them both. Good times.
Can't random branded orcs still get promoted for killing captains? In Shadow of Mordor they did. I always did wonder if it applied the other way around.
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scriver

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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of War
« Reply #659 on: October 14, 2017, 10:09:29 am »


Can't random branded orcs still get promoted for killing captains? In Shadow of Mordor they did. I always did wonder if it applied the other way around.

I honestly have not seen a single allied orc become a captain from a mook the way they would in SoM.

edit: well fuck it, off course I managed to kill him by mistake. I so much hope he cheats death.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 11:03:38 am by scriver »
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