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[doll]

Text wall incoming.

hehehe
In case you missed it:
4maskwolf

[TheBiggerFish]

It's a day late to be an appropriate reference, at least in my timezone, but...
I have a bad feeling about this...
4maskwolf as per doll.

[hector13]

PFP/W

Oh ffs. You're not even going to let 4mask have a say before condemning him? What are your thoughts on doll?

[Gentlefish]

I'll have something for you guys later today. The last few days have been a caffeine-fuled programming haze. Doesn't help I look active all the time cuz I have updated topics as a pinned tab. Regardless.

[webadict]

Text wall incoming.

hehehe
In case you missed it:
4maskwolf

Nah.

Or maybe but I doubt it. Mostly because you're mafia. But that's not a difficult readin or nothing.

But it finally makes sense for you to vote him. You called him out while voting TBF before, but you avoided him for some inexplicable reason. At least now you moved your vote correctly.

The problem is I can't vote you. You're too useful to the game to lynch. You talk a lot. If I'm wrong, it sucks a lot more than being right, plus I like you and your adorable dollface.

That said, I don't like lynching 4mask. But I can't lynch roo, they're angry enough to not be mafia. I can't lynch TBF, he's bound to sufficate on his own tongue eventually, I can't lynch you because you're cute, I can't lynch Hapah because I'm his scumbuddy, I can't lynch hector because he's useful... I could lynch Gentlefish or 4mask or whoever I forgot, they didn't make a mark on me and I'm always otp.

So what do I do, doll?

[TheBiggerFish]

PFP/W

Oh ffs. You're not even going to let 4mask have a say before condemning him? What are your thoughts on doll?

Excuse me?  He only has two votes on him, that's not condemnation.  Johiah's still gonna be lynched, not 4mask.

Thoughts on doll?  Seems to have a point.  Good play.  Doesn't seem obviously scummy.

[hector13]

PFP/W

Oh ffs. You're not even going to let 4mask have a say before condemning him? What are your thoughts on doll?

Excuse me?  He only has two votes on him, that's not condemnation.  Johiah's still gonna be lynched, not 4mask.

I honestly hope you're not going to continue with this pedantic playstyle, it is rather grating. It does not reflect well on you in game terms.

You are condemning 4mask. Are you not going to let 4mask retort before doing so? Are you going to unvote him if he makes a good point or two?

If you are voting for 4mask, presumably because you think he is scum, and still think Johiah is going to be lynched, why are you not trying to press a harder case on 4mask in order to avoid having someone you are not voting for get lynched?

Do you think Johiah and 4mask are the scum team?

Thoughts on doll?  Seems to have a point.  Good play.  Doesn't seem obviously scummy.

"Seems" to have a point? "not obviously scummy"?

A glimmer of hope! Please expand on these statements. The things I said earlier about plausible deniability still ring true with these, but at least I can (be bothered to) press you on these bits.

What do you think about doll's interaction with roo in this post?

[Hapah]

Catching up now.

[doll]

That said, I don't like lynching 4mask. But I can't lynch roo, they're angry enough to not be mafia. I can't lynch TBF, he's bound to sufficate on his own tongue eventually, I can't lynch you because you're cute, I can't lynch Hapah because I'm his scumbuddy, I can't lynch hector because he's useful... I could lynch Gentlefish or 4mask or whoever I forgot, they didn't make a mark on me and I'm always otp.

So what do I do, doll?

If you move your vote to Gentlefish for the time being, he'll be the current lynch target, at only three votes. This'll also mean that you can control the lynch between Gentlefish/Johiah/4maskwolf if nobody else bothers to change their vote. I don't know where roo or hector's votes are going to end up, so I expect the Gentlefish lynch to fall apart.

Realistically, I should have the 4maskwolf lynch down. He doesn't have a viable defense to anything I've posted, and that means that he hasn't done anything to help the town. There isn't an alternative case to make or being made; every other vote train has been slippery because it was based on inactivity. This is why I telegraphed my case; to build inroads to later use. After all, I'm voting 4maskwolf on a lack of useful activity.

I'm mostly pointing at 4maskwolf because of RVS, where his responses to (webadict & doll's) questions sat poorly with me and the lack of follow up (or initial impact) from his own confirmed that he wasn't engaged in the daygame. He hasn't since become engaged, even when I poked him on this. His play is ideal for scum and useless for town (outside of the fact that it got him caught); we're losing nothing if we lynch him.

That said, I can't see any reason to shoot outside of 4maskwolf, since all you have there is slightly-less-malicious inactivity. The only other player's contribution I rather dislike is Hapah's, but he is contributing so it's a thousand miles ahead of where 4maskwolf is at. I only went after Gentlefish because I thought he would respond to pressure and the TBF lynch had fallen apart (TBF 2.0 aka Johiah seemed much less likely to respond to pressure than TBF) so I wanted an interim vote to leave pressure on until I found somebody actually worth a lynch. Johiah is equally as useless as 4maskwolf but he's not under any pretension that he's not useless or that his uselessness is excusable, and he's not an IC so I'm not quite as concerned as I am about 4maskwolf being knowingly and intentionally useless.


In fundamental terms, 4maskwolf has the scummiest play I've ever seen. His game has been the platinum standard of active lurking. He hasn't even promised activity; he has given out literally nothing, not even the flame of hope of his being useful later. He has done his best to not exist without being noticed for it. The only 'issue' he ever forced, in the here and now with his response to me, was complete with all of nothing to gather information from. He tried to find out nothing from me. He doesn't want to know, and the only people who can really get away with that are scum.
4maskwolf is scum.

[Hapah]

Doll
This was a great deal longer than I thought it would be. Thank you, but don't feel like you have to write me a novel (though I do appreciate it!)

roo
(PPE: I almost deleted part of this but left it in, I'm just trying to reinforce good behavior in a BM, geez!)
This post is good! As for the big items in it:

Also idk if it is hapahs original thoughts fosing doll or looking for something to cast shade on doll. Independently I don't see how what hapah quoted could be suspicious.

There was one part of it that I found very suspicious and couldn't get to reconcile with the question asked. It might be nothing, or it might be a scumslip, depending on how you look at it.

I'm stuck at hapah play it doesn't feel town motivated...well neither do the ics of this game. Like hapah is unsure what to do but wants to do something it throws me back to what I talked about in his opening post.

I've never been a good D1 player; and I did join a Beginner's game after all this time to get back into the swing of things.

His compliment toward me feels odd

Perhaps it is, people have gotten a lot pricklier over the years (or maybe I've just got rose-colored glasses on). I did try to give you a little encouragement though, since TBF shitting all over you didn't sit right with me.

In the end it looks like this game is a repeat of every game I played so far: get indoctrinated into the bay12 playstyle or die, Lynch inactive player, scum kill active player.

I don't think D1 lynches on inactives are bad, given the alternative.

As it stands, Hapah tastes like Tiruin's scum - he continually defers posting until the morrow, as it were, and more or less just spends that time defending himself from whatever developments in the thread involve him and then delaying until further and further yet. The more he does this, the easier it is to put a huge amount of pressure on him when I call this habit in to bank.
That will happen Day 2. If I am not alive, roo and hector will do it for me.

Hey, I only put off posting once (I think). And I've always had a very poor D1 game. Why did you single out roo re: voting on Gentle? Why not cast a wider net? Why single me out instead of the other lurkers?

roo: I find it a little interesting you moved your vote, on someone else's request, so easily. Why is that? Was Doll that convincing? (PPE: looks like 4mask beat me to the punch on this one)

TBF
(Sorry if I missed some stuff, but the borked post was a little difficult to navigate)

-snip, back and forth line of questioning is about word choice of all things-
And from that I can probably derive something.

Like what? Give me an example, I don't see it.

doll

There isn't an alternative case to make or being made; every other vote train has been slippery because it was based on inactivity.

Fundamentally, the case against 4maskwolf hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to find scum. Nothing at all. Not one thing.

In fundamental terms, 4maskwolf has the scummiest play I've ever seen. His game has been the platinum standard of active lurking. He hasn't even promised activity; he has given out literally nothing, not even the flame of hope of his being useful later. He has done his best to not exist without being noticed for it.

Reconcile these statements. While you've written a lot in your leadup to the vote on 4mask, in the end your case is basically just that he's inactive and therefore scummy. How is this particular case different?

I'm going to review TBF's P25 (scum) play so it's easier for me to flip-flop on him with my partner.

What did you mean by this?

Votecount, please.

[doll]

Doll
This was a great deal longer than I thought it would be. Thank you, but don't feel like you have to write me a novel (though I do appreciate it!)

I wanted to get an impression of my reads out but didn't want to commit to a reads list proper, since it was far from complete and I didn't want to tip 4maskwolf off to how strongly I suspected him or post a null read on wuba.
Also, I write long posts.

As it stands, Hapah tastes like Tiruin's scum - he continually defers posting until the morrow, as it were, and more or less just spends that time defending himself from whatever developments in the thread involve him and then delaying until further and further yet. The more he does this, the easier it is to put a huge amount of pressure on him when I call this habit in to bank.
That will happen Day 2. If I am not alive, roo and hector will do it for me.

Hey, I only put off posting once (I think). And I've always had a very poor D1 game. Why did you single out roo re: voting on Gentle? Why not cast a wider net? Why single me out instead of the other lurkers?

If you can identify a part of your game which is bad, work to improve it.

I singled out roo because A) they're virtually confirmed town B) roo was on the dead TBF lynch and only switched to you because you're a good candidate for scum C) I didn't think roo's pressure would get anything out of you D) I thought that pressure on Gentlefish would produce something, especially with hector here.
Your lurking is different to other players, because you're promising more but also saying that you can't provide at that time. 4maskwolf is active lurking. Gentlefish could stand to be more active. You seem to be trying to look more active than you are, but your engagement appears limited by external factors. However, because you promise activity (and either do or do not deliver on it) you set yourself up for more attention, so it's inevitable that you'll be called out on it.

roo: I find it a little interesting you moved your vote, on someone else's request, so easily. Why is that? Was Doll that convincing? (PPE: looks like 4mask beat me to the punch on this one)

And what, precisely, was that vote going to do on you?

doll

There isn't an alternative case to make or being made; every other vote train has been slippery because it was based on inactivity.

Fundamentally, the case against 4maskwolf hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to find scum. Nothing at all. Not one thing.

In fundamental terms, 4maskwolf has the scummiest play I've ever seen. His game has been the platinum standard of active lurking. He hasn't even promised activity; he has given out literally nothing, not even the flame of hope of his being useful later. He has done his best to not exist without being noticed for it.

Reconcile these statements. While you've written a lot in your leadup to the vote on 4mask, in the end your case is basically just that he's inactive and therefore scummy. How is this particular case different?

I was playing a waiting game with 4maskwolf. I didn't intend to go after him Day 1. However, he gave himself away.
Those statements could be rephrased as:
1) There is no reason to vote outside of 4maskwolf
2) There is no reason not to vote 4maskwolf
3) There is a reason to vote 4maskwolf
The reason to vote 4maskwolf is that he responded to pressure by making a non-case. That means that he has no interest in finding scum. He has an interest in staying alive, which is why he shot that bait-filled post at me (to force me to overextend myself and fall flat when I tried to lynch him) but doing this demonstrated that he is engaged with the game (since he responded to pressure without a vote) and that his engagement does not involve a desire to find out more (about scum). This means that he is scum, as opposed to merely inactive.

I'm going to review TBF's P25 (scum) play so it's easier for me to flip-flop on him with my partner.

What did you mean by this?

I'm foreshadowing the fact that I've given a lot less thought to TBF than I perhaps should have since I was happy to vote him while he was town, so I really haven't got a good grasp of whether or not he's scum.
Since TBF plays like TBF and not in a greatly straightforward way, I wanted to refresh myself on his recent scum-meta (he was scum in the recent Paranormal 25) to compare it to his town day-game and to compare all of that to what's in this thread. That will take a lot of time and I haven't done it yet, but it might resolve in my developing an opinion on TBF out of the blue. Probably not, but if it does I'll have something to substantiate it at the time.
At the moment, I have no particular qualms or praise for TBF, but he has engaged with the game so he's slightly ahead of my 'null' reads on Webadict (hasn't committed himself to much nor has he produced a demonstrable mistake) or hector13 (virtually no content as of the time of my reads post)


Anyway,

Vote 4maskwolf
4maskwolf is scum

[roo]

roo
(PPE: I almost deleted part of this but left it in, I'm just trying to reinforce good behavior in a BM, geez!)
This post is good! As for the big items in it:

Also idk if it is hapahs original thoughts fosing doll or looking for something to cast shade on doll. Independently I don't see how what hapah quoted could be suspicious.

There was one part of it that I found very suspicious and couldn't get to reconcile with the question asked. It might be nothing, or it might be a scumslip, depending on how you look at it. [1]

I'm stuck at hapah play it doesn't feel town motivated...well neither do the ics of this game. Like hapah is unsure what to do but wants to do something it throws me back to what I talked about in his opening post.

I've never been a good D1 player; and I did join a Beginner's game after all this time to get back into the swing of things.

His compliment toward me feels odd

Perhaps it is, people have gotten a lot pricklier over the years (or maybe I've just got rose-colored glasses on). I did try to give you a little encouragement though, since TBF shitting all over you didn't sit right with me.

In the end it looks like this game is a repeat of every game I played so far: get indoctrinated into the bay12 playstyle or die, Lynch inactive player, scum kill active player.

I don't think D1 lynches on inactives are bad, given the alternative.

As it stands, Hapah tastes like Tiruin's scum - he continually defers posting until the morrow, as it were, and more or less just spends that time defending himself from whatever developments in the thread involve him and then delaying until further and further yet. The more he does this, the easier it is to put a huge amount of pressure on him when I call this habit in to bank.
That will happen Day 2. If I am not alive, roo and hector will do it for me.

Hey, I only put off posting once (I think). And I've always had a very poor D1 game. Why did you single out roo re: voting on Gentle? Why not cast a wider net? Why single me out instead of the other lurkers?

roo: I find it a little interesting you moved your vote, on someone else's request, so easily. Why is that? Was Doll that convincing? (PPE: looks like 4mask beat me to the punch on this one)

I'm not entirely certain what you mean in [1] would you care to clarify. I'll answer preemptively from what was going on in my mind. Iirc the color blue means a person is suspicious. In 180 is what I was referring to. But more importantly your post is finished yet you've listed a possibility but no evaluation of it.

Also the compliment while I do appreciate it this is a game after all. So you understand my trepidation I hope. I'll thank you properly after this game ends so you can believe that I am being sincere. As for your day 1 play there is nothing like the present! As for switching my vote for gentle fish when asked I don't see the problem. Unless you're telling me I shouldn't have moved it. Or me moving it has special meaning? Maybe if you had said roo is climbing into dolls ass and worse doll seems to be getting jiggy with it you might have something. But all that is a dislike of a player doing things differently (more on this at the end). Essentially I switched votes because no one was going to vote for you. It's better in my opinion if a larger amount of town players are on a wagon control a lynch instead of laying down and potentially letting scum dictate our lynch on an inactive worse yet a VI player everyone thinks is town. My vote felt dead and it wouldn't accomplish anything. I gained nothing from keeping it there, but I help my town read by moving it and creating discussion around it. You (hapah) said did you (roo) think dolls case was convincing? Yes and no because doll could have said the same thing about you (hapah) and 4mask Since gentle has not done anything neither has 4mask. But as you (hapah) have said lynching inactives isnt especially bad and I agree with you but I add the qualifier only if town control the inactive lynch. But that leads me to my question

What did you dislike my vote switch and why was doll case not convincing for you? It felt like you were asking me with an incredulous tone like that convinced you? Or am I wrong here?

This is the end: You did the same thing your post wasn't finished here you listed no possibilities and zero evaluations for the which theory might explain my action. it's fine not liking something, it's fine pointing these things out. It's even fine saying hey hector tbf web what do you think about it? What is not okay is not developing your read further.

Does it strike you as weird and why? Does it make me scum? Am I being manipulated by doll? Are me and doll scum partners? Think critically and methodically instead of simply reading the thread and reacting to it although that might not be entirely bad.

[johiah]

This place does have wifi and I brought an Ipad, but I don't have a lot of time and leave tomorrow so this will probs be my only post.
Doll seems pretty true, but I am still not sure if 4mask is Mafia. Will consider voting him.

[TheDarkStar]

Now things are getting interesting. Everyone is convinced that someone else is trying to destabilize the world. Soon, someone will have to take the blame.

You each hope that that someone isn't your country.


Hapah:
doll(2): johiah, 4maskwolf
johiah(3): Hapah, Gentlefish, webadict
Gentlefish(2): hector13, roo
Doubloon-Seven hector13:
TheBiggerFish:
roo:
4maskwolf(2): doll, TheBiggerFish
webadict:

Not voting:

Extend(0/4) (one extend remaining):


Day 1 ends Monday, May 8th at roughly 2pm forum time.

[TheBiggerFish]

@Hapah: Word choice, connotation and denotation, these things give insight into people's motivations.  I don't really have a good example off the top of my head...though I suppose I could point you at Angry Tiruin in FBYOR 2 for a good example of suspicious activity.