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[misko27]

I'm safe then. I dont use social media. (besides, I already stated my views on the matter a few pages back.)

That's a pretty clear of Hipsterism

Naah, I do it too and I am of least hipster person possible. I'm going to be a "You damn kids get off my lawn" guy in my 30s. I bleed sensible, drab, and boring.

[scriver]

Old Man Misko telling some kids off:
"I was on this lawn before it was cool dagnabbit!"

[Shub-Nullgurath]

Max, you're saying you want to let illegal aliens vote if they simply express the desire?

How would that even work? Would they have to show up in person, or would I be able to do an absentee ballot for any election around the globe I care to participate in? Would I be allowed to pop over for a holiday in early November 2020 and vote because I say I feel trans-American, despite having no legal status to fall back on?

I mean, I have mixed feelings. It seems crazy, but on the other hand, to have been able to have voted for Trump myself - rather than just persuading my American in-laws to do so - would have been glorious. Plus you'd have the hilarity of 4chan organising meme candidates in banana republics up and down the globe.

Imagine if Russia actually influenced the US election the same way they did in Crimea.

[Reelya]

Disenfranchising people from political power/rights/involvement because you arrested them would seem to be as undemocratic as you could possibly get. Considering that there's ample evidence that black people are disproportionately punished at each stage of the law/criminal process (for equal crimes to a white person). it's clearly the new Jim Crow.

Basically it's the ultimate tempation for corruption if the government can just make shit up and take your legal vote away. It can and will be used, if such a power exists. When such laws exist, people will be targeted if they can be guessed to belong to one or the other political party from what they look like or howe they dress.

[Shub-Nullgurath]

Disenfranchising people from political power/rights/involvement because you arrested them would seem to be as undemocratic as you could possibly get.

Not arrested, convicted.

Considering that there's ample evidence that black people are disproportionately punished at each stage of the law/criminal process (for equal crimes to a white person).

Not true, those "disproportionately punished" tend to have much longer rap sheets.

[sluissa]

Disenfranchising people from political power/rights/involvement because you arrested them would seem to be as undemocratic as you could possibly get.

Not arrested, convicted.

Same difference. A conviction can be corrupted almost as easily as an arrest.

[wierd]

perhaps easier. Convictions and trials can be performed in absentia (meaning you are not present in court, eg, they did not apprehend you). Throw in US's secret courts, and you have a winner. You could be a convicted felon, and not even know.

[Neonivek]

Right now it's just quietly accepted that felons, undocumented immigrants, and the directly disenfranchised groups (minorities and the poor in various locations with voter id/etc laws) can't vote.

No it isn't... Unless you mean "accepted as fact" and not "accepted as acceptable".

Well except undocumented immigrants... which for obvious reasons we can't have ghosts voting.

[Azzuro]

Right now it's just quietly accepted that felons, undocumented immigrants, and the directly disenfranchised groups (minorities and the poor in various locations with voter id/etc laws) can't vote.

No it isn't... Unless you mean "accepted as fact" and not "accepted as acceptable".

Well except undocumented immigrants... which for obvious reasons we can't have ghosts voting.

One leads to the other. I'm pretty sure a majority of the population thinks these people shouldn't vote, or at least don't care that they can't, such that conditions are the way Max has stated. Also, quit responding to people's arguments piecemeal, Max's particular meaning of 'accepted' here has negligible effect on the rest of the argument he's presenting.

[Neonivek]

Right now it's just quietly accepted that felons, undocumented immigrants, and the directly disenfranchised groups (minorities and the poor in various locations with voter id/etc laws) can't vote.

No it isn't... Unless you mean "accepted as fact" and not "accepted as acceptable".

Well except undocumented immigrants... which for obvious reasons we can't have ghosts voting.

One leads to the other. I'm pretty sure a majority of the population thinks these people shouldn't vote, or at least don't care that they can't, such that conditions are the way Max has stated. Also, quit responding to people's arguments piecemeal, Max's particular meaning of 'accepted' here has negligible effect on the rest of the argument he's presenting.

If I wanted to address his entire argument I would address it. I am only harping on a single point thank you

Felons is controversial enough... but Minories and other disenfranchised groups a big no-no.

[Azzuro]

Right now it's just quietly accepted that felons, undocumented immigrants, and the directly disenfranchised groups (minorities and the poor in various locations with voter id/etc laws) can't vote.

No it isn't... Unless you mean "accepted as fact" and not "accepted as acceptable".

Well except undocumented immigrants... which for obvious reasons we can't have ghosts voting.

One leads to the other. I'm pretty sure a majority of the population thinks these people shouldn't vote, or at least don't care that they can't, such that conditions are the way Max has stated. Also, quit responding to people's arguments piecemeal, Max's particular meaning of 'accepted' here has negligible effect on the rest of the argument he's presenting.

If I wanted to address his entire argument I would address it. I am only harping on a single point thank you

Felons is controversial enough... but Minories and other disenfranchised groups a big no-no.

Well how is it a no-no? Come to think of it, I basically see no difference between:

Right now it's just quietly accepted as fact that felons, undocumented immigrants, and the directly disenfranchised groups (minorities and the poor in various locations with voter id/etc laws) can't vote.

Right now it's just quietly accepted as acceptable that felons, undocumented immigrants, and the directly disenfranchised groups (minorities and the poor in various locations with voter id/etc laws) can't vote.

Care to elaborate the difference?

[Max™]

Disenfranchising people from political power/rights/involvement because you arrested them would seem to be as undemocratic as you could possibly get. Considering that there's ample evidence that black people are disproportionately punished at each stage of the law/criminal process (for equal crimes to a white person). it's clearly the new Jim Crow.

Basically it's the ultimate tempation for corruption if the government can just make shit up and take your legal vote away. It can and will be used, if such a power exists. When such laws exist, people will be targeted if they can be guessed to belong to one or the other political party from what they look like or howe they dress.

Word, the US imprisons an absurdly huge number of people, treats them as slave labor, tortures them (again: solitary confinement=torture), and then makes sure they can't even take part in changing the system not just while they're incarcerated, but ever!

Right now it's just quietly accepted that felons, undocumented immigrants, and the directly disenfranchised groups (minorities and the poor in various locations with voter id/etc laws) can't vote.

No it isn't... Unless you mean "accepted as fact" and not "accepted as acceptable".

Well except undocumented immigrants... which for obvious reasons we can't have ghosts voting.

I feel like you're expecting me to respond to something you didn't type yet, and yeah, when it's something that is just quietly allowed that is no different from accepting something to those who are being wronged.

Max, you're saying you want to let illegal aliens vote if they simply express the desire?

How would that even work? Would they have to show up in person, or would I be able to do an absentee ballot for any election around the globe I care to participate in? Would I be allowed to pop over for a holiday in early November 2020 and vote because I say I feel trans-American, despite having no legal status to fall back on?

I mean, I have mixed feelings. It seems crazy, but on the other hand, to have been able to have voted for Trump myself - rather than just persuading my American in-laws to do so - would have been glorious. Plus you'd have the hilarity of 4chan organising meme candidates in banana republics up and down the globe.

>.>

You know damn well that isn't what I meant.

[TheInquisitor]

As a Fascist, I believe in equal voting rights for everyone.

That is to say, none.

Spoiler: More seriously (click to show/hide)

I'm actually quite interested in Mosley's parliamentary model of Fascism, where the franchise is occupational rather than geographical. That is, you elect your representatives based on your profession, rather than your location. This meshes well with the Fascist idea of Corporations (which are not like what you think of as a Corporation today, but rather a cross between a trade union and a political party.

I know you weren't intending the changes to increase the amount of people voting for Trump, certainly, but beyond that I really have no idea. Allowing non-citizens to vote seems crazy to me, so if you want to advocate that idea you'd do well to explain it clearly along with whatever limits (if any) you are proposing.

I'd imagine that the only limit he'd want to put on it is if said non-citizens were in any way conservative or patriotic, they would not be allowed to vote, because then they might vote for the wrong person.

[TheInquisitor]

Spoiler: More seriously (click to show/hide)

I'm actually quite interested in Mosley's parliamentary model of Fascism, where the franchise is occupational rather than geographical. That is, you elect your representatives based on your profession, rather than your location. This meshes well with the Fascist idea of Corporations (which are not like what you think of as a Corporation today, but rather a cross between a trade union and a political party.

So, like guilds, then?

Also top kek at the edit.

Yes, somewhat like a guild.

[StrawBarrel]

Considering that there's ample evidence that black people are disproportionately punished at each stage of the law/criminal process (for equal crimes to a white person).

Not true, those "disproportionately punished" tend to have much longer rap sheets.

Black and Latino Americans are disproportionately punished by having disproportionately higher arrests rates, higher conviction rates, higher bails, and longer prison sentences. But those with longer rap sheets of do tend rotate in and out of prison more as recidivism is a gigantic piece of the problem as well.