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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 393011 times)

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1950 on: May 04, 2017, 10:10:11 am »

For our next boat I definitely think crystal reinforcement (either one if he methods I proposed in earlier plans - crystal plating or a crystallized mundane material) is the way to go.
Bigger ship to fit enough steam engines and multiple weapons on board without essentially sacrificing integrity. Crystal reinforcement makes fire ineffective on it and generally improves its integrity. Something to be feared. We could stick with that for a while once we get it to expensive.

Then we could maybe design a crystalclad. Crystal is pretty light, but completely covering it in thick crystal playing would still be heavy and require multiple enhancements in steam engines. Hence why steam engine revisions like the one I'm proposing for revisions (lighter steam engine) are a good idea.

@Andrea: I suppose. The idea is that specialization both makes it so it doesn't affect us and is more effective at what it does, but I see the point in both sides. I'm posting a new version (same name and same everything except for priming mechanism) with the priming mechanism soon.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

andrea

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1951 on: May 04, 2017, 10:13:27 am »

Thank you, waffles. COnsidering we have no experience in divination, in the end a way to keep it working with our cannons may not be more compelx than specializing it to divination.

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1952 on: May 04, 2017, 10:14:47 am »

Quote
also countering Lucky Strike because they can't see us if we're using sniper-spotter tactics

Lucky Strike does not require vision to work, it happily cut even through magical fog.

Is this stated anywhere? I can't find it.

It was one of the early battle reports.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1953 on: May 04, 2017, 10:30:56 am »

Design: SO1-AM "Equalizer"
Simply put, the SO1-AM is more so of a revision of both the anti-magic bomb and the standard HCx shell. It can be used with any current cannon, from the HC1 to the HC2-E (if someone feels like losing that day). Mathemagicians have reviewed the poorly thought-out plans for the archaic anti-magic bomb; a fossil of a more primitive non-cannon way of fighting.
However, before the paperwork was to be burned as is standard for mediocre designs, the lead Mathemagician in the room came up with an idea: To adapt the anti-magic bomb to standard shell regulations and make it useful. The mathemagicians got to work!
After a few days, a preliminary design was laid out:
The center of the shell is hollowed out and filled with a crystal very similar to the anti-magic bomb. However, this crystal is intentionally made more stable and somewhere between a cross between the already-known anti-magic charm and the anti-magic bomb. Upon absorbing a large amount of magical energy once entering the vicinity of a filthy Moskurgian mage, the crystal and the shell will explode, raining crystal shrapnel across the area and hopefully causing some amount of damage. But the damage isn't the point here. The crystal, while unstable enough to explode in its "complete" form, separates into uncountable more stable shards. These shards will disrupt and absorb magic in the vicinity. Individually, one shard isn't going to do much and expires after some period of time unlike the anti-magic charm, but the combined shards coming from the explosion of a shell will carpet an area and make it unusable for those smelly Moskurgians to use Lucky Strike or other cowardly spells.

In order to prevent the shell from detonating in our possessions or disrupting our magics such as the cannons themselves, the crystal in the shell is inert. Large amounts of sudden heat and energy such as the firing of the shell will change the structure of the crystal to the point where it becomes active again. This is possible thanks to precise mathemagics being used to tweak the spells and methods used in the anti-magic crystal, allowing for it to have this inert structure until fire. When fired, the shell will become active and start accomplishing its intended purpose away from our troops.


This is the new design. Only thing that changed is the added priming mechanism. The SO1-AM in the design vote box will be referring to this version now and I'm editing a mention of this update in the last design post.
Also, we really need a tiebreaker. I can remove my votes for other things (SO1-AM now takes priority for me) but deciding by just my vote is kind of bad. 
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1954 on: May 04, 2017, 10:36:57 am »

Eh, I'' support it. Not time to update the vote tabel though.
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Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1955 on: May 04, 2017, 02:07:43 pm »

No.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 03:40:17 pm by Roboson »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1956 on: May 04, 2017, 02:47:51 pm »

I've added both your votes to the SO1-AM.

Quote
Designs
2 - HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist
2 - Heretic shell: Robson, Chiefwaffles
4 - SO1-AM "Equalizer": Chiefwaffles, Andrea, 10ebbor10, Roboson
1 - FA1 "Metal Storm" : 10ebbor10
1 - Freeze Wands: RAM
1 - Flash Cast Crystals: FallacyofUrist
1 - Divination Jammer: Andrea
3 - AS-HC2-E: Andres, 10ebbor10, Stabby
1 - Nature's Eye: Azzuro

Also @Andrea and designing ships around the steam engine: I'm assuming the SBP1 is more so an existing standard ship with heavy modifications. But now that we have he experience from that, we could make a completely new boat fitting the steam engines and multiple cannons without being delicate.
I think lifter steam engines is more important than crystal plating at sea, though. Right now our Fog-O-Wars are sinking after single hits because of how heavy they are. Fire isn't as effective, and more-so just damages our boats rather than one-shot them. That and steam engine improvements in general are always nice. Crystal plating should be saved for a future revision.
Next round I want to again emphasize that we definitely need to build new artillery. We're losing in the artillery game - the anti-magic shells will be nice but even with great rolls they won't completely stop the enemy artillery which is plentiful and out ranges most of our artillery. We need delivery devices for the Anti-magic shells. The HC1-E's with Equalizers loaded will most likely easily beat Moskurg artillery but for our HC1's they still have to roll into range. We need plentiful goood artillery, and designs like the FA1 and HA1 accomplish that.
But right now AM shells are more important. We can focus on artillery next turn.

EDIT: The AS-HC2-E also works as an alternative to the suggested artillery designs so far. Though I gotta ask what the AS stands for-- Oh. It's Arstotzka, isn't it?
Still. Antimagic shells this round, artillery the next.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 02:50:20 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1957 on: May 04, 2017, 02:55:11 pm »

Just fixing some errors that worked their way into the voting chart...
Quote
Designs
2 - HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist
2 - Heretic shell: Robson, Chiefwaffles
4 - SO1-AM "Equalizer": Chiefwaffles, Andrea, 10ebbor10, Roboson
1 - FA1 "Metal Storm" : 10ebbor10
1 - Freeze Wands: RAM
1 - Flash Cast Crystals: FallacyofUrist
1 - Divination Jammer: Andrea
3 - AS-HC2-E: Andres, 10ebbor10, Stabby
1 - Nature's Eye: Azzuro
0 - Supreme Predictive Algorithms Machine:
0 - Tower of Growth:
0 - (RAM)Living Crystal Charms:
0 - (RAM)Wooden Planks:
0 - Flameshrieker Shells:
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1958 on: May 04, 2017, 03:32:16 pm »

Please vote for my plan instead of the Equaliser. It is a far simpler design and thus much more likely to succeed, it solves the problem of our cannons being too expensive, and it opens up lots of very useful technologies in the future, including explosive shells, personal cannons, and repeater cannons.

Glory to Arstotzka.

fakedit:
EDIT: The AS-HC2-E also works as an alternative to the suggested artillery designs so far. Though I gotta ask what the AS stands for-- Oh. It's Arstotzka, isn't it?
((Yep. It's also what all of our designs in the original Arms Race began with.))

EDIT: The design succeeding is important. If the design fails, we need to spend the Revision phase fixing it. Doing so means we can't use the Revision phase to make our Frost Towers cheaper. Since all the regions are covered, making them cheaper will intensify the cold of those regions, killing the Moskurgs in the Plains and significantly diminishing them in the Jungle.

In fact, we could SERIOUSLY diminish the Moskurgs in the Jungle if we take the surplus Frost Towers from the Mountains and give them to the Jungle. Not quite enough to kill them all, but it's enough to make it a complete hell for them.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 03:40:26 pm by Andres »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1959 on: May 04, 2017, 03:45:41 pm »

What? Dear god, no.
We should not be reducing the expense of our towers. They don't work at sea where we are straight-up losing and hurting significantly for it. We need a revision to work st sea regardless of the design.
We can afford losing the jungle again, and an anti-magic shell still makes that much less likely.

I'm not significantly opposed to a new artillery design but a revision that works at sea is very important. I'll be fine if we get better artillery this design phase. 

Also, shouldn't the AS-HC2-E actually be named the AS-HC3?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 03:48:37 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Roboson

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1960 on: May 04, 2017, 03:48:33 pm »

Withdrawing support for the equalizer. It's just another antimagic bomb. My vote is for the jammer, whether it's in shells, or a tower, or whatever.

It's unlikely an antimagic bomb like this will even stop their casting. It's like sprinkling sand on a fire, a few grains will weaken it, but it will take a lot to put it out. More than we have. We need something that works to constantly keep their magic down and can't be used against us or blow up in our possession.

Just fixing some errors that worked their way into the voting chart...
Quote
Designs
2 - HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist
2 - Heretic shell: Robson, Chiefwaffles
3 - SO1-AM "Equalizer": Chiefwaffles, Andrea, 10ebbor10,
1 - FA1 "Metal Storm" : 10ebbor10
1 - Freeze Wands: RAM
1 - Flash Cast Crystals: FallacyofUrist
2 - Divination Jammer: Andrea, Roboson
3 - AS-HC2-E: Andres, 10ebbor10, Stabby
1 - Nature's Eye: Azzuro
0 - Supreme Predictive Algorithms Machine:
0 - Tower of Growth:
0 - (RAM)Living Crystal Charms:
0 - (RAM)Wooden Planks:
0 - Flameshrieker Shells:
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Light forger

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1961 on: May 04, 2017, 03:49:40 pm »

Quote
Designs
2 - HA1 "Onslaught": Chiefwaffles, FallacyofUrist
2 - Heretic shell: Robson, Chiefwaffles
3 - SO1-AM "Equalizer": Chiefwaffles, Andrea, 10ebbor10,
1 - FA1 "Metal Storm" : 10ebbor10
1 - Freeze Wands: RAM
1 - Flash Cast Crystals: FallacyofUrist
2 - Divination Jammer: Andrea, Roboson
4 - AS-HC2-E: Andres, 10ebbor10, Stabby, Lightforger
1 - Nature's Eye: Azzuro
0 - Supreme Predictive Algorithms Machine:
0 - Tower of Growth:
0 - (RAM)Living Crystal Charms:
0 - (RAM)Wooden Planks:
0 - Flameshrieker Shells:
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1962 on: May 04, 2017, 03:52:49 pm »

It's... not an antimagic bomb?
It's based on the antimagic but the goal is to cancel out enemy magic near where it hits. When we have existing technology that does this.

It's the same thing as loading an anti-magic charm into a shell but with a better range, it's not a singular point of failure (think of it like this: 100x1 = 100.)

I'd like to point out that we've delayed a counter to lucky strike what, 3 turns in a row?
Lucky strike is the reason for the success of their ballistae.
It's why their fire bombs are so effective.
It's why we're losing at land and sea.
We need to counter it. We've delayed it too many times and delaying it again isn't going to work.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1963 on: May 04, 2017, 03:56:52 pm »

Quote
In the western seas we are met with a source of frustration.  Our new Fog-O-War, initially designed to match Moskurg speed and out-range their artillery, now simply matches them in both areas.  Our heavier ship construction means we can survive more mundane hits, be it rock or javelin, but their fire is nearly impossible to put out.  Our men have resorted to hacking off parts of the ship that catch on fire and dumping them overboard, even if it results in a leak.  It's the better alternative than burning up.  Our cannons are equally effective; the small, dense, shaped cannon shot punches holes through the light, delicate Moskurg ships.  Every hit results in a sunk ship, but that's only coming from our limited steam ships.  They carry their weight, bringing down many with them, but once they're gone Moskurg has the advantage.  It doesn't help that nearly any damage to the steamship inevitably results in it sinking; it sits so low in the water that once it starts to flood it's nearly impossible to stop.  Still, they prove their worth today and manage to keep Moskurg from gaining ground, even with their new extreme-range ballistas mounted on every ship.  It was an expensive stalemate and we will likely lose ground unless something changes next year.

Our Theatre Commander understands the use of the Fog-O-War.  Arstotzkan ships are sturdy by design, and the fact that we can tank hits when they can't is a big boon to our side.  If we had an entire fleet of them, the battle would have been over just as quickly as it started.  He points out that the Fog-O-War is sturdier, but the fact that they tend to eventually sink after a single hit is a big issue.  A ship designed entirely around the steam engine would be far more efficient, and would let us field more cannons aboard her decks too.  Their fire is still an issue; perhaps crystal armor could help keep the wood and tar beneath from burning up...?

Neither side gains ground in the Western Sea.

So, uhm, I was rereading the update, and found this part quite strange.

We have an entire fleet of steamships. They're just as expensive as our normal ships.

We got lucky when we rolled that 6 despite the -3 modifier, and I don't think we should be punished for that with an ad hoc rule change to suddenly implement a new tier exclusively for our units.
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Light forger

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #1964 on: May 04, 2017, 03:58:26 pm »

The steamships are pricier then our normal ships until we get the mountains back.
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