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[evictedSaint]

Damn, I really miss being able to offer input.

[NUKE9.13]

I modified the revision slightly to better reflect the relationship between the mages and the sailors.

Heh heh heh.

Order

You realise we roll Orders at a disadvantage, right? Do you want to consider the effects of rolling a one on either of those? (Forest fires killing our own troops, our own mages falling into enemy hands instead)
Plus, I really don't want to open the whole 'espionage' can of worms if we can avoid it. Their fireballs may be pretty overt, but our Teletalk wands they probably don't even know exist, and I'd like to keep it that way for as long as possible.

I can get behind developing

Improved Detect Thoughts: Using what we have learnt of Divination magic over the years, we can improve upon our mind-reading capabilities considerably. Utilising a clever trick of using enemy soldiers as 'thought-relays' (bonus points if it drives a handful insane), we extend the range considerably, and by creating cheap but specialised equipment for our diviners to use we make the formerly complex spell usable even by less skilled mages.
The combination of longer range and more casters (of a more expendable nature) allows us to easily retake ground in the information war- rendering their officer bonus worthless, and perhaps even giving us clues as to the uses and limitations of their magic.

So +1 to Improved Detect Thoughts. Using a design, we should be able to make it both cheaper and longer-ranged. Otherwise we may as well just use a revision.
Although, if we don't want to risk introducing bugs, we could just do two revisions this turn (which I recall Iituem saying was an option)(Our main revision we are obviously spending on fixing SoA)

[somemildmanneredidiot]

The gain of territory wasn't recorded within the Ocean Combat section.

I downvote the current Orders as I trust in NUKE, haven't read how they work, and think those are poor ways to go about gaining advantages anyway.

When you say 2 revisions do you mean 2 revisions for 1 design phase or do you mean 1 revision for the design phase and 1 revision for the revision phase? If the former then I am definitely for it as we would be able to revise the Spear, the Detect Thoughts, and either the Lances or the Ships, for increased durability and lowered Expense respectively. If we can get down to Expensive Ships then I think we'd have a huge edge in the Sea while having spent 2 Revisions on it.

If we decide that a new spell is needed, may I purpose something?

Terramancy: The Skies are dear and true to us, so why not ask the Earth to strike our foes as well? We start by asking the Earth to move gently for us in well prepared rituals. Mechanical Goal: Several Mage Ritual that Moves Dirt and Stone.

It'll allow us to make gains into the Mountain while also letting us more easily create fortifications in general. Also we can use it to clear trees and set traps within the Jungle. They may have began work with the green of the world, but that green feeds on and roots itself in the Ground beneath us all.

[evictedSaint]

The gain of territory wasn't recorded within the Ocean Combat section.

Iituem doesn't display the shift of ocean territories for some reason, but instead records their progress privately.  I don't know why, but I will continue to do it this way unless he says otherwise.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Thanks for the swift reply! My money says that there's actually a third faction or a bunch of critters in those seas, and until we deal with them we can't fully control a sea.

[evictedSaint]

Nope.

[Iituem]

I'll be honest, I think I had a good reason but I can't even remember what it was.  If you want to record naval progression explicitly, you go right ahead.  [Or if you want to add the Deep Ones faction, keep it hidden!]

[NUKE9.13]

I downvote the current Orders as I trust in NUKE, haven't read how they work, and think those are poor ways to go about gaining advantages anyway.

Iituem mentions it earlyish in the core thread. Arstotzka started giving orders to the military, which he decided was allowed but would be rolled at a disadvantage (roll two dice, pick the lower result). I'm guessing one of their orders was related to them having commoners giving orders to noblemen early on- presumably the result of a failed order, which ended up giving us an advantage instead.

When you say 2 revisions do you mean 2 revisions for 1 design phase or do you mean 1 revision for the design phase and 1 revision for the revision phase? If the former then I am definitely for it as we would be able to revise the Spear, the Detect Thoughts, and either the Lances or the Ships, for increased durability and lowered Expense respectively. If we can get down to Expensive Ships then I think we'd have a huge edge in the Sea while having spent 2 Revisions on it.

2 revisions total; exchange our design phase for one revision phase. The advantage being, revisions never introduce new bugs to an existing product. I'd prefer to keep the design phase, but it is an option.

Terramancy: The Skies are dear and true to us, so why not ask the Earth to strike our foes as well? We start by asking the Earth to move gently for us in well prepared rituals. Mechanical Goal: Several Mage Ritual that Moves Dirt and Stone.

It'll allow us to make gains into the Mountain while also letting us more easily create fortifications in general. Also we can use it to clear trees and set traps within the Jungle. They may have began work with the green of the world, but that green feeds on and roots itself in the Ground beneath us all.

It'd be a new sphere of magic, probably, but it's worth keeping in mind, especially when we decide to focus on retaking the mountains (probably after we've taken the jungle)

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Thanks! Unless our military is doing a major stupid move or we have an especially inspired use of something that the military hasn't implicated yet, I think we should avoid Orders for the moment, too much risk.

So a deisgn and a revision or two revisions. Currently we have Crossbows, Terramancy, and Camouflage as purposed Designs with Improved Detect Thoughts, ISoA, and Kite Sails as purposes Revisions, if I am correct. Is there anything else that people think we should do this turn? If not, what do we want to do?

[S34N1C]

I think the Kite sails are more of a design. Also, what's the ISoA? I can't seem to find it.

I'm still for crossbows at the moment. I proposed them so we might negate their armor advantage, since our bows can't penetrate it.

[Kashyyk]

Improved Spear of Allah.

Why do we want crossbows when we already have cheap,  powerful compound bows?

[S34N1C]

Because they can't pierce armor? Unless I'm high or something, they can't get through it, right?

Edit:
It's been brought to my attention that we could modify the arrows instead of the bows themselves. Armor piercing arrows sound good

[NUKE9.13]

Crossbows are in many ways inferior to recurve bows. Lower rate of fire, can't be used on horseback, more expensive to build. And recurve bows pack a solid punch themselves. I think our current bows are good enough.

So a deisgn and a revision or two revisions. Currently we have Crossbows, Terramancy, and Camouflage as purposed Designs with Improved Detect Thoughts, ISoA, and Kite Sails as purposes Revisions, if I am correct. Is there anything else that people think we should do this turn? If not, what do we want to do?

Improved Detect Thoughts would be a design, as we would be aiming to both reduce the cost and increase the range. And Kite Sails would almost certainly require a design to create.

Another design that is always on the table as far as I'm concerned is a Ballista, but I'd rather develop something that would be useful in the jungle.

Thus my vote remains that we design Improved Detect Thoughts, which is useful everywhere, and then use our revision to fix SoA. Between the two of them we should gain greatly on all fronts.

[Kashyyk]

Improved Detect Thoughts

+1. An amusing follow through to this would be to combine it with our knowledge of teletalk for Suggestion: Place an idea into the targets mind, then encourage them to follow through with it. For best effect, make it seem like they came up with the idea. Worst (working) case, enemy officers get inundated with bad ideas they have to sift through, slowing down planning meetings. Best case, they give stupid orders that benefit us.

[evictedSaint]

Design: Improved Detect Thoughts: [1!, 6!, 5]
Teletalk wands and mind reading both diverged off the same branch of magic - Divination.  Our experience in both aspects provides us with a unique opportunity.  In the same way we use our short-range teletalk wands as relays to boost signal distance, we could use an individuals mind as a relay to read the thoughts of those further away!  As long as there's enough people between the mage and his target, he can leapfrog from one mind to the next until he's sitting between the ears of the enemy's Theatre Commander, reading his every thought!   In preliminary tests, this proves entirely possible.  And with our earlier knowledge of the insanity induced by our teletalk wands, we don't even lose any mages during the tests.

But there's a problem.

For every relay included in the spell, their thoughts are overlayed onto the targets.  After two relays the connection becomes such an indescipherable mashup of chaotic thoughts and emotions that nothing can be learned.  Even a single relay results in a disruptive amount of noise that leaves the final result...wanting.  Plus, much like teletalk wands, frequent use results in weird dreams - not that it's a major issue, but it does make our wizards grumble.

On the bright side, using minds instead of magical components is incredibly cheap!  Even our apprentices are able to cast this spell after some training.  Normal cost.