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The Federation of Mars

9 (37.5%)

The Outer Systems Republic

15 (62.5%)

Total Members Voted: 23

[Hanzoku]

((I looked at his profile after the fact. He's all the way over in Singapore, so it was perfectly valid for him. Stupid time zones mucking everything up. ))

Before the meeting...

"...but it's a beautiful piece of classical music!" protested the functionary in charge of the entertainment.

"Listen. It was written for an ancient show on earth from the beginning of the last century. It's famous in the show as being played as a signal to ambush and murder the other party at a wedding feast. 

Look, what I can see happening if that's playing is... He explains the events of the April's Fool's post.

One of the security guards has listened in and objects. "Come now, Mr. Hanzoku. We have state of the art scanners, and we'd see instantly if they were bringing that sort of firepower into the meeting hall."

Hanzoku shrugged. "I agree it's unlikely, but... just find something else to play, alright?"

The director of entertainment sulkily agreed, and with a frown, the security guard went to his superior, who ordered the active sensors on the carrier fleets turned on briefly... purely as a training exercise.

Thought's on the Federation's proposal

Overall, I think the accords are acceptable. We can factor in the manufacturing time and travel time into the total cost of the mine. Selling the Klotho claim for that price gets us half of its resources immediately, while they Federation will be busy for years in recouping the cost, much less turning a profit from it. It clears up a tension point in the asteroid, and we can claim the next two asteroids that we find useful.

[Azzuro]

((Just to clarify, the Federation forfeiting its claim was in reference to the two extra asteroids they would get to claim immediately prior to the Hartley Convention coming into effect, which was to bring the two powers to parity in asteroid claims. Trading Klotho would also bring them to parity, which was why they were 'of course' willing to forfeit their two free claims for the deal. Sorry if that wasn't clear.))

Ceres Summit - 20th May 2100, 04:50 UTC

After a quick discussion, Commodore Sheb, resplendent in his blue-black ceremonial dress uniform, stands to deliver the Republic's response. He states, "While we are happy that the issue of Klotho may be resolved peacefully with trade, the Republic is not willing to trade the mines on Klotho for the current price offered. Mines don't only cost minerals and money, they also take up manufacturing time. We would be willing to trade the Klotho mines for an equivalent amount elsewhere."

"In addition, we would like to exchange the mineral surveys of our current claims before agreeing to this deal."

Federation Administrator Brennan scowls. "In that case, the mine trade is off the table. The Republic will have to remove its mines on Klotho by the handover date, to be fixed at three weeks from today, when the Federation takes possession."

She looks ready to continue, but is interrupted by Administrator Kumari Chitale of Mercury. "We agree to an exchange of mineral survey data, to give both sides a better idea of the asteroid claiming situation. I am transmitting the current TNE quantities on our colonies to you now."

Code: (Astraea) [Select]

Duranium 9 514 (1) Corbomite 13 839 (1) Boronide 10 274 (1) Corundium 12 080 (1)

Code: (Aurelia) [Select]

Duranium 15 300 (0.9) Sorium 9 730 (1) Gallicite 11 525 (0.9)

Code: (Ariadne) [Select]

Neutronium 8 808 (0.9) Tritanium 15 597 (1) Corundium 12 443 (1)Current mineral counts of 52 Europa, Psyche, Wolf-Harrington, Machholz and Klotho have likewise been transmitted to the Federation.

Administrator Chitale continues, "With the recent launch of the Republic's first civilian-owned freighter, it seems likely that civilian enterprise could also expand into the asteroid TNE mining industry. I concur with CEO Hanzoku that they should be allowed free rights to any non-colonised body, and would like to add that such claims should not fall under the Hartley Convention if and when they occur."

"However, the Federation is at this time, opposed to any free trade deal with the Republic. Perhaps we will reconsider when relations between our powers improve."

"Regarding geological survey rights, the Federation stands by its position that Republic vessels shall not be allowed within the orbit of Mars. We are willing to release geosurvey data on the non-populated bodies within, if the Republic likewise reveals its surveys of the Jovian and Saturnian systems excepting their populated worlds. As for other bodies in the outer planets and Kuiper Belt, both powers shall have the right to freely conduct geological surveys, or ask for a one-time mineral count if the body has already been colonised."

Spoiler: Ceres Accords (click to show/hide)

Ceres Accords

Hartley Convention on Claim and Transit Rights
Here 'asteroid' is shorthand for asteroids, trojan asteroids, comets, moons (except those of the inner six planets) and dwarf planets
1. Each power will have an equal number of asteroid claims at the time of this accord, verified in the least intrusive manner possible by the other power.
2. Each power may make one more claim at any time if they have equal or lesser number of total claims than the other power. The power with more claims may not make a claim except under point 3.
3. Each power will be entitled to claim at a minimum rate of one asteroid per six months, if the other power has not matched their number of claims in that period.
4. The claiming of an asteroid will be verified in the least intrusive manner possible by the other power, and a legitimate claim is defined as having at least one installation on the body in question, with the exception of purely colonial infrastructure.
5. A claim to a body will include a 10 million km exclusion cordon of space around the body, in which any ships (military or civilian) or the other power may not pass, excepting the circumstances in point 6.
6. In the case of comets and other 'moving' bodies, such an exclusion cordon will not apply at all within 230 million km of the sun, or 230 million km of the current position of Jupiter, and the powers controlling those spaces will be allowed to pass any ships at any distance from the comet colony. The claiming power may not station any military ships at the comet, but is allowed to transit civilian ships within the other power's sphere of influence to their colony, subject to inspection.
7. Civilian mining operations shall be considered a claim for their parent power, without being counted for or subjected to the restrictions on claims in points 1, 2 and 3

The Klotho Deal
The Federation shall pay the Republic 10,000 tons of Duranium and 24 of Uridium, delivered to a location of the Republic's choosing, and in return the Republic shall remove its mines from Klotho and acknowledge the Federation claim to it, both by the handover date of June 11th, 2100.

((Exchange the geosurvey data for the non populated worlds (Saturn, Jupiter, Dione)? Try to press on for free trade?

Also, I realised that there was a mistake in the wording, it's supposed to be 'moons EXCEPT THOSE of the inner six planets'. It's been updated, along with the Klotho deal.))

[Karlito]

I believe the geosurvey data they're offering is limited to Venus, the moons of Mars, potentially a few inner-system asteroids, and of course, Earth. If we believe the Federation is concealing mineral wealth on Earth, I doubt they'll own up to it now, and if we believe their claims that Earth is depleted, we're not likely to learn much else.

That said, I'll add my support to the terms of the Ceres accords as they currently stand.

[TalonisWolf]

4. The claiming of an asteroid will be verified in the least intrusive manner possible by the other power, and a legitimate claim is defined as having at least one installation on the body in question, with the exception of purely colonial infrastructure.

Wait, does this mean that if we built a colony with only colonial infrastructure for the intent of, say, research or pure manufacturing, it wouldn't be considered a legitimate claim? I know this is just sounds nitpicky, but if we built purely sensor outpost colonies in the belt they may not be recognized as ours, and I could see the Feds wiping out such a colony and claiming 'they were clearing out what looked like a pirate base, sorry for the misunderstanding!'.

[Sheb]

I guess purely colonial infrastructure means just some life support without acutal colonists. We should ask for clarification.

[Azzuro]

Purely colonial infrastructure means just Infrastructure (in the Aurora mechanics sense) with no other installations of any other kind and no colonists using that infrastructure. So if a body has only:

1 Automine: ok
1 Mine, Construction Factory, DSTS, Research Lab, GFTF, etc. : ok
10 Infrastructure with colonists inhabiting it: ok
1 or 1000000 Infrastructure that is uninhabited: Not ok

Although the Feds likely won't be happy if you straight out tell them "we claimed this asteroid with the sole intention of spying on your ships" regardless, but they can't raise a legal objection to it.

Also, need some consensus on whether to take the current offer of geosurvey data for the unpopulated inner system in exchange for geosurvey data for the unpopulated Jovian and Saturnian systems. Karlito, I assume you're voting against?

[Hanzoku]

I'm for trade of mineral data - we're not facing mineral shortages to the point where knowledge of the presence or lack of certain minerals would raise tensions.

I believe we should push for civilian free trade between inhabited bodies - doing so promotes cross cultural appreciation, and will help moderate any 'Us vs Them' feelings our civilian populations might foster if contact is limited to only government functionaries. I realize it might sound silly, but tourists appreciating Titan ice-sculpting or mountain climbing Olympus Mons on Mars helps ground our populations and keep in mind that we are all still one people, despite our different governing bodies.

[Sheb]

I concur with Hanzoku.

[Karlito]

On consideration, I also think we might as well trade the geosurvey data. In the spirit of scientific cooperation and all that.

[Azzuro]

Ceres Summit - 20th May 2100, 05:10 UTC

"We will accept this further exchange of geosurvey data, in the spirit of scientific cooperation" says Governor Karlito. Federation attachés begin to transmit the geosurvey data to the networks of the Republic, while Republic diplomats do the same.

Code: (Eros) [Select]

Duranium 13 100 (1) Mercassium 12 700 (0.9) Corundium 8 900 (1)

Code: (Tempel 1) [Select]

Duranium 80 902 (1) Mercassium 19 477 (0.8) Sorium 28 084 (0.8)

Code: (Reinmuth) [Select]

Neutronium 8 924 (0.5) Tritanium 16 658 (0.9) Uridium 14 156 (1)Note that Tempel 1 and Reinmuth are both comets currently outbound from the Sun. Only Eros is a fixed asteroid. Data on TNE reserves of Jupiter, Saturn and Dione have likewise been sent to the Federation.

Across the room at the Federation table, the professional diplomats maintain a straight face as they look through the Republic's data on the TNE deposits of Jupiter, Saturn and Dione. Other less experienced officials try, but don't quite manage to hide their surprise at the data: sharp intakes of breath and raised eyebrows are evident on many faces.

After a quick scan through the data, a suspicious Governor Karlito inquires, "Do you have data for Venus and Earth?"

"The Federation has scanned Venus and Earth and found both to be empty of TNE minerals." Administrator Hartley delivers this answer without blinking.

CEO Hanzoku, not to be deterred, presses on, "I believe free trade between our worlds - and the resultant cross-cultural appreciation stemming from trade and tourism - will do more to advance the cause of peace for which we are gathered here today. The civil societies we represent know hardly anything of each other except as the cause of the foreign policy crises on the news, and the closest most citizens will ever get to the worlds of their long-separated brothers is abroad a warship, standing a ceaseless vigil and ready at a moment's notice, to reduce them to ashes from orbit! Which they will not have any qualms about doing, if they never know the myriad traditions and cultures, the innumerable little habs and domes, the countless lives and families that make up our glorious states except as numbers! It may sound silly, but tourists appreciating the ice-sculpting on Titan or mountain climbing Olympus Mons on Mars helps to ground our populations and remind them that we are all still one people, all that's left of humanity, despite our different governing bodies. Free trade will do more to create a lasting and stable peace than any treaty we sign today. Free trade will lead to better relations between our powers, not vice versa. Will the Federation not consider paving the way for true peace tomorrow by allowing free trade today?"

His impromptu speech draws polite applause from the Republic side, and even some scattered nods from the Federation table. The Federation Administrators Chitale and Brennan confer quickly, before the former stands up.

She replies, "After re-evaluating, the Federation will be willing to open up free trade with the Republic, if the Federation is allowed to claim the Saturnian moon Dione as a mining colony. Dione would be considered one of our claims under the Hartley Convention, if you agree."

[Karlito]

I am against granting the Federation sovereignty over a part of the Saturn system. I also think that given the underdeveloped state of the civilian shipping industry, there is no need to push for a trade agreement right now.

[Sheb]

I disagree on principle on having to make unilateral concessions just to secure a trade deal that would benefits us both equally. As chief of our military, I also would rather have the Federation stays out of Saturn.

[Hanzoku]

I have to reluctantly concur. Allowing the Federation to stake a claim to a Saturnian moon opens the precedent to further claims to other moons. Further, just as the Federation is reluctant to allow us any access to the inner system, A permanent colony around one of the Republic's claimed planets is undesirable to the populace.

Hopefully in the future, free trade can be discussed without attaching conditions to it.

[Lorknis]

Indeed, that colony would be a little too close for comfort. Though I am curious if they'd let us do the same if we asked for the same favor and we accepted their terms.

[Hanzoku]

Hah! I agree. Offer mining rights for Dione in exchange for Republic mining rights to Deimos or Phobos (and free trade between our nations). We would each have a civilian enclave in the other's space to facilitate polite interaction.

((I just want to see their faces when faced with the idea of a Republican colony that close to home, given how caught up they are with exclusion zones and their efforts to keep us out of the inner system.

I also agree with a suggestion from earlier - we really want to get some DSTS on our comet claim as it swings through the inner system. We can always pull them back off again afterwards.))