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[SalmonGod]

the american intelligence apparatus has shown itself to be increasingly incapable of doing anything but gathering information on its own citizens and stopping the one terrorist that attempts an attack every other year or so.

It's almost as if counter-terrorism was only ever a shallow pretense for propping up status quo defense against anti-authoritarian and anti-capitalist sentiment.  Almost. 

If only there were historical examples of these organizations taking extra-legal action against activists and public figures, which demonstrated clear political bias.  Or maybe if there were any investigative journalism exploring the application of post-911 counter-terrorism apparatus on recent activist movements such as Occupy.  If only.

[sluissa]

https://www.scribd.com/document/427565829/Whistleblower-Complaint-Unclassified

The actual complaint is definitely something. More than just a single very bad phone call. This wasn't just something that accidentally came flying out of his mouth at a bad time. There were months of back and forth about this.

[ggamer]

I've been hearing about stuff like this for the past couple years, some bits and pieces from news and others from friends. I am practically giddy to see how hard he's going to break his back reaching for an excuse for this blatant misconduct. Motherfucker's brown shirts won't be protecting his odorous ballsack much longer, hopefully. There's always the chance the opposition will commit some kind of spectacular fuckup, also likely is that we'll hear about a lot of dirty laundry from the DNC to get in some good old fashioned whataboutism.

[Folly]

I am practically giddy to see how hard he's going to break his back reaching for an excuse for this blatant misconduct.

Assuming that you're referring to Trump, right now he's in full-spin mode. Trump's already accused the Dem's of pressuring the Ukraine to make up slanderous lies about him, claimed that he is the real whistleblower for exposing all of the Dem's corruption, and is now attempting to shift attention to the danger of traitorous spies in the White House. Trump also gave an hour-long droning speech yesterday about all the wonderful things he has done for his country, and culminated with an explanation of how the stock market would crash and the economy would fall to ruins if he were ever removed from office. And just for good measure, Trump's got his lackeys running around boasting to the media about how little attention he is paying to this whole matter, and how focused he is on more important affairs.

[Trekkin]

also likely is that we'll hear about a lot of dirty laundry from the DNC to get in some good old fashioned whataboutism.

We can further expect "no quid pro quo" to show up on a straw or a pen or something from the Trump campaign. It doesn't actually matter -- soliciting the foreign investigation of a political opponent is itself impeachable -- but that hasn't stopped them before.

[Telgin]

As usual, I'll be shocked if Trump actually suffers any consequences from this.  I also won't be surprised if it really does benefit him in the next election since it gives him ammo.

That said, we've beaten the dead horse over and over about how nobody is really undecided on whether they will vote for Republicans or Democrats.  The best possible outcome would just be fewer people deciding they can support Trump and turning up to vote for him, but I could easily see the spin that he's being unfairly persecuted by the Democrats energizing people who otherwise wouldn't turn up to vote for him to do so just to make sure a Democrat doesn't win.

I know a few people in my family that fit that description.

[sluissa]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/d9fa28/timeline_of_the_ukraine_saga/

There's an interesting timeline with a few details included that have been overlooked by a lot of the media.

Especially interesting was the timeline of Coats and Gordon resigning.

[Reelya]

As usual, I'll be shocked if Trump actually suffers any consequences from this.  I also won't be surprised if it really does benefit him in the next election since it gives him ammo.

Don't be too surprised that if he does suffer any consequences they're a lot more drastic than you thought they'd be. Consequences are often all-or-nothing, and people who've been getting away with something despite the possible consequences tend to come to overestimate their ability to get away with it, and to under-estimate the severity of the consequences.

"I've been juggling scorpions for years with no ill effects, what's the worst that could happen?"

Not saying he's going down for this (specific incident), but it's likely that if they get literally anything to stick on the guy (at some point), the effect will be a lot more sudden and eventful than you'd expect. Teflon Don has his suit that nothing sticks to, but as a result he has very thin skin and no coping mechanisms or damage-control instincts. He tries to bluster his way out of everything, the idea is that if he keeps yelling eventually everyone else backs down and leaves him alone. That works fine, until you are the president and now legally on the hook for everything you say and do.

[smjjames]

As usual, I'll be shocked if Trump actually suffers any consequences from this.  I also won't be surprised if it really does benefit him in the next election since it gives him ammo.

Don't be too surprised that if he does suffer any consequences they're a lot more drastic than you thought they'd be. Consequences are often all-or-nothing, and people who've been getting away with something despite the possible consequences tend to come to overestimate their ability to get away with it, and to under-estimate the severity of the consequences.

"I've been juggling scorpions for years with no ill effects, what's the worst that could happen?"

Not saying he's going down for this (specific incident), but it's likely that if they get literally anything to stick on the guy (at some point), the effect will be a lot more sudden and eventful than you'd expect. Teflon Don has his suit that nothing sticks to, but as a result he has very thin skin and no coping mechanisms or damage-control instincts. He tries to bluster his way out of everything, the idea is that if he keeps yelling eventually everyone else backs down and leaves him alone. That works fine, until you are the president and now legally on the hook for everything you say and do.

Random thought: no damage control instincts, very thin skin*, yells a lot = DnD barbarian. Or maybe berserker barbarian. *Well, I guess you could roleplay a barbarian who triggers at the mildest slight, but that doesn't need to define the barbarian class.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Nah, Trump is undeniably a Warlock. He's got a ton of cheap and fast power that even he doesn't understand the source of, and while he's intended to be the pawn of a force far beyond him he's also too much of a horny manic pit of anxiety to actually carry out that role, to the extent that he sometimes attacks his patrons.

[sluissa]

https://qz.com/1717059/ukraines-president-is-being-dubbed-monica-zelensky-at-home/

I almost feel sorry for the guy... almost.

[hector13]

He didn’t actually do anything wrong, though I haven’t read the transcript.

[smjjames]

https://qz.com/1717059/ukraines-president-is-being-dubbed-monica-zelensky-at-home/

I almost feel sorry for the guy... almost.

He didn’t actually do anything wrong, though I haven’t read the transcript.

Perhaps not, but the optics still don't look great for him: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/27/trump-ukraine-investigation-impeachment-228669 As far as most Ukrainians go, it's almost purely an American affair and at worst it's just really embarrassing for him.

[Reelya]

Partway through reading that article I read the bit

“We are now being played in their personal interest. We are just small change in their games,” the security official said.

And it got me to thinking of political spy thriller movies, and then the type of people they get to portray the president. There isn't going to be Morgan Freeman portraying a Trump style president in a movie.

And I'm not talking Alec Baldwin or Trump impersonations here. Morgan Freeman was (not) portraying any particular president, he was portraying a boiled down sense of "presidential" behavior. So who would perform a good "Trump style" president, but who isn't Trump.

And that gets to another scary point. At some point, and probably sooner than we'd hope, someone will make a pro-Trump Trump movie, where Trump is the embattled underdog hero out against the fake news media trying to keep him down.

[wierd]

I'll take Celebrity Impersonators for 500 Alex.

"This celebrity would be a perfect fit to portray a Trump-era president."

"Who is Jim Carrey, in a lot of latex and orange spray paint?"