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[Frumple]

Nah rol, isp kinda' nailed it on the head. Criticism isn't necessarily the issue, but the specific wording the initial flare-up came from could have came right out the mouth of a dog-whistling neo-nazi or some shit. Hopefully unintentionally it rammed right into existing anti-semite signalling, which raised some (well deserved in particular from jewish folks, who deal with that sort of bullshit plenty without it coming (more) from the left, too, tyvm) concerns. GOP's being bigoted hypocritical fucksticks as per usual, but there's fairly legit complaint to be made in this case, too.

And yeah, you'd have a hell of a time not tripping over shit like that without a lot of effort... but, y'know. We should kinda' be wanting that sort of effort out of our representatives...

[sluissa]

I'll agree the wording was ill thought out and a little blunt for such a sensitive issue... but I really don't think you'd have any different reaction from any different wording if the media and opposition decided to make a big deal out of it.

It's perfectly fair to criticize a nation's actions without criticizing the people of said nation as a whole.
If we're going to criticize Trump(or his advisors) for working with Russia, if we're going to criticize Clinton for taking Saudi money, then it's perfectly fair to criticize politicians taking money from other foreign countries as well and question their motives when they then provide preferential treatment to those same countries.

[Trekkin]

It's also worth pointing out that American domestic policy toward Israel is unique in that we have one. Certaint types of government employment are preconditioned on disclaiming all support for the pro-Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement via loyalty pledge, and there have been repeated efforts to make boycotts of Israeli companies illegal -- and, of course, even objections to this on civil libertarian grounds are branded anti-Semitic.

[Zangi]

Isn't anyone that voices any sort of objection to the shit Israel gets up to an anti-semitic?  Whatever shit that would not normally fly elsewhere.

That is how things work in the US.

EDIT: You are also an anti-semitic if you point out that our US politicians are taking money from 'interest groups' based in Israel.

[wierd]

Only because, for whatever reason, any kind of disparaging comment about Israel, and its handling of the Palestine issue(s), is immediately considered a disparaging comment against an entire race/heritage.

A government is not an entire people.  A government does not represent an entire people, especially not those that reside in OTHER countries, and are citizens of OTHER countries.


If I were an insidious country, with an insidious agenda, this is exactly the kind of ideological armor I would try to put on.  Condemning the government of Israel for its atrocious behaviors, is not condemning an entire people, who have no culpability for that nation's actions or decisions, in any capacity other than having the same heritage. But that nation certainly profits from that wrongful association. I find it sickening, frankly.  (And yes, I can make a case to be a hereditary jew, though I don't practice. that government and its behavior do not represent me, and I do not feel in any way disparaged when people rightfully call out its offenses.)

[smjjames]

Yeah, with all the controversey and attacks on criticism as being anti-semitic, I'm wondering myself 'how do you criticise Israel without being antisemitic? is merely criticising them antisemitic?'. They are an ally, but that doesn't mean that they can't be held accountable for their actions.

The whole actions that they are doing and the rise of the Jewish far left reminds me of an ancedote, 'When you fight monsters, take care not to become a monster yourself.' They're becoming at risk of behaving like the very thing that Israel owes it's existence to.

As a sidebar/aside, apparently WH communications director Bill Shine just resigned, no details atm I don't think....

[Kagus]

The whole actions that they are doing and the rise of the Jewish far left reminds me of an anecdote, 'When you fight monsters, take care not to become a monster yourself.'

Quoting Nietszche is also antisemitic.

[JoshuaFH]

Realistically, you'd want to criticize your allies way harder than you criticize anyone else, since they're connected to you in via the political equivalent to friendship, and in that way their crimes reflect onto you implicitly. It'd be like if your friend that you always hang out with started committing heinous crimes, but you said "Nah man he's my friend I gotta stick by him." and suddenly you look like an accomplice, or atleast an enabler.

[smjjames]

The whole actions that they are doing and the rise of the Jewish far left reminds me of an anecdote, 'When you fight monsters, take care not to become a monster yourself.'

Quoting Nietszche is also antisemitic.

Uhhh, I didn't realize that was from Neitzche... I thought it was a general saying of 'if you fight against something terrible, take care not to become the very thing', sort of like 'stare into the abyss (long enough) and the abyss stares back'. Or is that one from nietzche?

*does a google search* Damn, that one is from nietzche too. Also, I think you're pulling my leg as nietzche was opposed to antisemitism...

Realistically, you'd want to criticize your allies way harder than you criticize anyone else, since they're connected to you in via the political equivalent to friendship, and in that way their crimes reflect onto you implicitly. It'd be like if your friend that you always hang out with started committing heinous crimes, but you said "Nah man he's my friend I gotta stick by him." and suddenly you look like an accomplice, or atleast an enabler.

Realistically, yes, but look at the relationship we have with the likes of Saudi Arabia.

[Kagus]

*does a google search* Damn, that one is from nietzche too. Also, I think you're pulling my leg as nietzche was opposed to antisemitism...

Being opposed to antisemitism is also antisemitic.


And yeah, a lot of Nietszche quotes were just so quotable that they got yoinked by the masses and repeated everywhere. Which is really funny, because there's another quote (taken out of context) of his where he mentions how much he hates people who take things out of context.

Like, for me, I got introduced to Nietszche when Baldur's Gate's intro cinematic included the (unattributed) abyss quote and I decided to google it one day because I was looking for hot sexy Baldur's Gate references. Zarathustra I am not.

[scriver]

Iirc it was attributed to "the Wise Alaundo", an in-setting prophet kind of guy.

[Kagus]

Iirc it was attributed to "the Wise Alaundo", an in-setting prophet kind of guy.

Nah, that was a separate slide of the intro, which included part of Alaundo's Bhaalspawn prophecy (the only important thing he's ever done). The Nietszche quote was on its own, with no attribution.


Anyways, it looks like we've started gearing up the memes for

Spoiler: one heck of an election season (click to show/hide)

[wierd]

So.. That meteoric descent of Sanders there... Is that some hidden metaphor about falling from on high, and destroying everything in the conflagration?  because it could be interpreted that way...

[smjjames]

I took it to mean Sanders obliberating the competition. Lol at the Warren one appearing to try and eat the Schultz one.

There should be some mammals and birds/feathered dinos with the names of the underdogs, because, you know, underdogs....

[Kagus]

So.. That meteoric descent of Sanders there... Is that some hidden metaphor about falling from on high, and destroying everything in the conflagration?  because it could be interpreted that way...

It's just showing that he's the oldest one of the bunch.