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[Trekkin]

Even among super-religious conservatives, his main draw is "has religion" and "currently in white house". Nobody cared about him before that, and nobody is going to care about him after.

It's been enough to carry Trump among evangelicals even despite being untrue. Why would it not carry someone who actually is a zealot?

[Dunamisdeos]

Even among super-religious conservatives, his main draw is "has religion" and "currently in white house". Nobody cared about him before that, and nobody is going to care about him after.

It's been enough to carry Trump among evangelicals even despite being untrue. Why would it not carry someone who actually is a zealot?

I don't think that carried Trump. I think there was a lot of overlap in the things he said while running and the things those zealots try to peddle, but I didn't see much direct correlation to common support/Trump pretending to give a whit about God until after he was elected.

I got the idea it was being used to retroactively justify their support for him, which to me is even worse. What I saw/see is:

"Ok, we voted against evil Hillary, mission accomplished, now let's see how he does"

Then came:
"Well he's endorsing horrific acts, but I can't go back and say he was wrong, then I could have been wrong about a lot of things and I definitely can't handle that"

After that we're now at:
"If you aren't for Trump, you aren't a Christian, because if you are a Christian and you're against Trump, that mean I WAS WRONG and THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE because I AM A CHRISTIAN and GOD IS NEVER WRONG so I'M NEVER WRONG (loop into infinity)".


However, I continue to see less and less of this. The people that are diehard fundies are moving further into that mindset, as they do, but I see more and more people moving away from it. We have sermons in my Southern Baptist Church about how homosexual people are not, in fact, mustache twirling satanists trying to undermine our existence (wish I could say that was an exaggeration in the past), and we have multiple refugee assistance programs that we get regular updates on. They include things like material and educational aids. Things are changing for the better.

Anyway that's all my own experience. Pence being religious isn't going to carry him in my circles, IMO.

[PTTG??]

So there's a meme going around that Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) is an anti-semite because of of a tweet. Before you read any coverage, read the tweet: https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1094747501578633216

She's clearly criticizing Republicans, not insulting Jews.

Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or lying.

[Egan_BW]

Or merely imperceptive. People are capable of unintentionally misinterpreting things, you know.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[PTTG??]

I suppose a 14 year old who's a bit behind on his reading comprehension might make that sort of mistake, but nobody with significant authority should be that imperceptive.

[Kagus]

It's all about the Benjamin( Netanyahu)s, baby!

[Egan_BW]

I suppose a 14 year old who's a bit behind on his reading comprehension might make that sort of mistake, but nobody with significant authority should be that imperceptive.

There's a difference between the hypothetical ideal universe where authority figures don't make mistakes and, you know, reality. Everyone makes mistakes, I figure most people are continuously making mistakes, and the very most perceptive and methodological people only make mistakes a few times a day.

[Dunamisdeos]

Yeah I don't see any anti-semitism there.

In reading through the replies, I see arguments made that the kind of punishment being considered "like removal from Committee assignments if not censure or worse." are "political consequences of the most imaginary kind" and "Not a First Amendment issue".

So yeah this sounds like a lot of posturing BS from everyone involved. Sounds like someone is considering political retaliation against someone that does not hold the same political goals or views. So, like, basically this is just another Monday in DC.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

America's support of Israel is the rotting tooth nerve of modern politics. Anybody critical of it gets flooded with claims of antisemitism lest someone take a look at what Israel actually does.

[Kagus]

But Hamas.

[smjjames]

Why did he accept being vice pres in the first place?

Probably has his own reasons and ambitions. Not sure how far down the 'potential VPs' list they had to go before reaching Pence since he wasn't really on any speculators lists I don't think. Trump was actually not sure about his choice and reportedly asked if he could change his mind (he definetly could have changed his mind at any time, just that, once he had announced his pick, the optics of it wouldn't be great unless he had a clear reason to drop him like a radioactive potato).

[Trekkin]

Even among super-religious conservatives, his main draw is "has religion" and "currently in white house". Nobody cared about him before that, and nobody is going to care about him after.

It's been enough to carry Trump among evangelicals even despite being untrue. Why would it not carry someone who actually is a zealot?

I don't think that carried Trump. I think there was a lot of overlap in the things he said while running and the things those zealots try to peddle, but I didn't see much direct correlation to common support/Trump pretending to give a whit about God until after he was elected.

I got the idea it was being used to retroactively justify their support for him, which to me is even worse. What I saw/see is:

"Ok, we voted against evil Hillary, mission accomplished, now let's see how he does"

Then came:
"Well he's endorsing horrific acts, but I can't go back and say he was wrong, then I could have been wrong about a lot of things and I definitely can't handle that"

After that we're now at:
"If you aren't for Trump, you aren't a Christian, because if you are a Christian and you're against Trump, that mean I WAS WRONG and THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE because I AM A CHRISTIAN and GOD IS NEVER WRONG so I'M NEVER WRONG (loop into infinity)".


However, I continue to see less and less of this. The people that are diehard fundies are moving further into that mindset, as they do, but I see more and more people moving away from it. We have sermons in my Southern Baptist Church about how homosexual people are not, in fact, mustache twirling satanists trying to undermine our existence (wish I could say that was an exaggeration in the past), and we have multiple refugee assistance programs that we get regular updates on. They include things like material and educational aids. Things are changing for the better.

Anyway that's all my own experience. Pence being religious isn't going to carry him in my circles, IMO.

Well, he was at 66% among white evangelicals a month ago for some reason presumably unrelated to the multiple divorces, sexual harassment, past support for abortions, affairs with porn stars, pride, sloth, lust, wrath, and "Two Corinthians"-level ignorance of the Bible he alleges is his favorite book, just like white evangelicals' support of Roy Moore was largely unaffected by his probably being an ephebophile. As that article notes, it appears to be policy that animates them, and Pence, should hamberders or Mueller make him President, will be in a position to implement the policies screwing over the people evangelicals hate.

I understand that it's not your experience, and that's encouraging, but I think that in terms of Pence's political calculus, he may figure that his best bet is to lie low because he knows he's more palatable than Trump to the hate-based faithful in this country and can make that the new base after Trump's existing base fragments, which is probably his best shot at retaining the Presidency.

[smjjames]

Except that he was considered a zealot among zealots when he was in Congress, and unlike Trump, whom the Republicans could more or less control, he has defined ideals which Republicans will have a harder time steering away from when things get uncomfortable.

Another reason why he may be laying low or just appearing to is that we’ve gotten used to high-powered VPs for the last two Presidencies (not sure where those further back fit in on that scale), so Pence is sort of a reversion to the way it was previously where they weren’t as visible or active.

[Lord Shonus]

The reason people freaked out about Pence was the fear of him succeeding Trump, either by Trump leaving the Presidency, or by Trump leaving office with enough star power to bootstrap his VP. It is now looking very unlikely that Trump will be removed before the 2020 election season goes into full blast, and he's unpopular enough that enough will probably splash on Pence.

[Folly]

4 days away from another government shutdown, reports are coming in that Congress has reached an agreement for a bit less than $2b in border wall monies, in exchange for fewer immigrant detention beds. This is of course far short of the $5.7b that Trump has demanded so far. So the question is, will Trump take what he can get, or do we enter another shutdown?