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[nenjin]

Pretty sure older republicans know who she is. At least the group I was constantly exposed to name dropped her plenty.

To me it reads like she just doesn't want to give up power.

[Doomblade187]

One thing I heard noted repeatedly was that Pelosi has not been grooming a successor. Which really makes her harder to replace. Cutthroat she sounds.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Don't worry, we can make his successor Pelosi's. Sound good? Good.

[Folly]

John Bolton refuses to listen to Khashoggi murder tape.

Anyone who has the words 'National Security' in their job title, and can with a straight face make the argument that audio tape offers no advantage over a written transcript for purposes of information gathering, that person needs to be fired immediately.

[nenjin]

John Bolton refuses to listen to Khashoggi murder tape.

Anyone who has the words 'National Security' in their job title, and can with a straight face make the argument that audio tape offers no advantage over a written transcript for purposes of information gathering, that person needs to be fired immediately.

While I have no love for Bolton...if a qualified translator listened to the tape and gave him the substance of it...does he actually need to listen to it?

[RedKing]

John Bolton refuses to listen to Khashoggi murder tape.

Anyone who has the words 'National Security' in their job title, and can with a straight face make the argument that audio tape offers no advantage over a written transcript for purposes of information gathering, that person needs to be fired immediately.

While I have no love for Bolton...if a qualified translator listened to the tape and gave him the substance of it...does he actually need to listen to it?

If you're going to then argue that the tapes are irrelevant and we should overlook this as a minor incident because the relationship is too important, then yeah...I think he needs to man up and listen to Khashoggi's death cries.

It's the depersonalization of evil that allows normal people to go accept it. (Not that I'd consider Bolton a "normal" person.)

[smjjames]

Don't worry, we can make his successor Pelosi's. Sound good? Good.

His successor (the person who beat him in a primary) was Ocasio-Cortez. Sure, once they have a couple of years of experience under their belt.

Couple of years? A decade might be better.

[Loud Whispers]

If you're going to then argue that the tapes are irrelevant and we should overlook this as a minor incident because the relationship is too important, then yeah...I think he needs to man up and listen to Khashoggi's death cries.

It's the depersonalization of evil that allows normal people to go accept it. (Not that I'd consider Bolton a "normal" person.)

Sounds nice in theory, on the other hand in practice it's needlessly pornographic to select your officials from a list of liveleak users who feel compelled to listen to the sounds of someone being hacked to pieces. Leads to dangerous territory where politicians who are ordinary people are attacked for not manning up and watching the gore

[RedKing]

Don't worry, we can make his successor Pelosi's. Sound good? Good.

His successor (the person who beat him in a primary) was Ocasio-Cortez. Sure, once they have a couple of years of experience under their belt.

Couple of years? A decade might be better.

A decade gives Washington time to metastasize in any candidate. I'd say two terms, three tops.

@LW: Nothing saying he has to watch it, if he agrees that the fact that it's that appalling means the Saudis need to go fuck themselves with a really long stick. I just have a problem with someone saying "it's not bad enough to change our policies" but it's bad enough that they won't watch/listen to it.

[Dunamisdeos]

So what exactly ARE we doing to hold the Saudi's accountable? Everyone just seems to be nodding in agreement that they outright assassinated the guy then also outright lied about it.

[Loud Whispers]

@LW: Nothing saying he has to watch it, if he agrees that the fact that it's that appalling means the Saudis need to go fuck themselves with a really long stick. I just have a problem with someone saying "it's not bad enough to change our policies" but it's bad enough that they won't watch/listen to it.

Well what you're asking is for the US government to factor in morality in policy. Unless it's related to sex they have little interest in doing so. I agree though, it's imperative that this is factored

So what exactly ARE we doing to hold the Saudi's accountable? Everyone just seems to be nodding in agreement that they outright assassinated the guy then also outright lied about it.

No one is going to shake MBS's hand at G20, and they're totally giving him the silent treatment. They also unfriended his facebook

[smjjames]

@LW: Nothing saying he has to watch it, if he agrees that the fact that it's that appalling means the Saudis need to go fuck themselves with a really long stick. I just have a problem with someone saying "it's not bad enough to change our policies" but it's bad enough that they won't watch/listen to it.

Well what you're asking is for the US government to factor in morality in policy. Unless it's related to sex they have little interest in doing so. I agree though, it's imperative that this is factored

So what exactly ARE we doing to hold the Saudi's accountable? Everyone just seems to be nodding in agreement that they outright assassinated the guy then also outright lied about it.

No one is going to shake MBS's hand at G20, and they're totally giving him the silent treatment. They also unfriended his facebook

Giving him the political cold shoulder would probably be more effective than any sanctions, now if only the US would give him the cold shoulder. Doesn't have to mean cutting off relations, we can just like, ignore him and talk to King Salman instead.

Could also make him do something rash like attempting regicide though, dunno....

[Loud Whispers]

On the bright side, even if MBS remains in power his ambition to create a strong well-educated Saudi middle class is likely going to create the institutions which will replace him

[RedKing]

King Salman has Alzheimer's and is largely a figurehead at this point. The rest of the world may shun MBS but he can rest assured that his good friend Donald Trump will still kiss his ass because Trump loves that Riyadh dosh.

On the bright side, even if MBS remains in power his ambition to create a strong well-educated Saudi middle class is likely going to create the institutions which will replace him

Yeah, Xi Jinping sure looks endangered by a growing Chinese educated middle class. 
Nah, the Saudis will be fine with MBS in power as long as they get their movie theaters and Lexus SUVs.

IMHO, societies with a long history of autocracy don't automatically want to ditch autocracy just because they develop a bourgeois middle class. If anything, Western Europe was the aberration there. If the autocracy can provide them with all the creature comforts of a democracy, without any of the democratic mess, the vast majority of educated middle class people are going to be just fine with it.

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah, Xi Jinping sure looks endangered by a growing Chinese educated middle class. 
Nah, the Saudis will be fine with MBS in power as long as they get their movie theaters and Lexus SUVs.

MBS does not possess the Chinese state security apparatus, while Xi Jinping does not have to deal with millions of young men whose only education is in theology and only work experience in fake government jobs. Xi Jinping has full control over every intelligence, political and military institution in his country, MBS cannot properly train his own armed forces in case they rebel. Most importantly, Xi Jinping is talented & experienced, well liked by the general populace and the civil & military branches of his government. MBS is young, inexperienced, surrounded by rival princes, clerics and officials

*EDIT
It's the difference between an absolute monarch and a presidential autocrat tbh. Not to be overlooked is how Saudi Arabia has under MBS failed in most all of its foreign policy objectives. Lost in Yemen, drove Qatar to Iran, lost Syria & Iraq, his bid to gain acceptance in the West torpedoed by Khashoggi, whilst Xi Jinping has the belt & road initiative, domestic anti-corruption crusades whilst he's winning versus the USA