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[Kagus]

Really, what catches people up the most is the expectation of one singular "right" answer. There isn't. Like trying to find a right economic system, attempting to find a right ethical system is doomed to fail. There's not even a least bad option- just several mixed ones. Take your pick; you can't go wrong, really.

This is pretty much it, really. And the more people read about the established ethical categories and systems, the more they think they'll be able to finally get to the bottom of the whole thing and find the right one... Which, when you're dealing with a cosmic scale at that point, becomes rather ludicrous.

Anyway has Giuliani always been a Trump type of guy? He always seemed like he had the personality but not the capacity for ridiculousness, I actually wouldn't have expected him to get this on board with Trump.

Depends on how you mean; he's always been pugnacious, and I think he followed Christie in playing that up when Trump became capo candidate in the hope of getting a Cabinet position. At a guess he also watched Christie come away with nothing for all his efforts and has decided to double down on it, thus the current ridiculousness.

I can't help but feel we've heard a lot more about Giuliani as of late, but whether that's because he's recently gotten more insane or simply because he's now directly attached to the Trump media engine is hard to say.

[EnigmaticHat]

All ethics teachers should have "you can believe in moral relativism and still have opinions" sown into the back of their shirts, and "utilitarianism doesn't work because you can't see the future" written on a piece of paper and then stapled to their forehead.

[Dunamisdeos]

I agree completely with the ethics thing. It's not possible to create a broad system that covers all situations. In theory it would be possible to simply cover all possible situations with extreme specificity, but we aren't at all capable of that in modern society.

I have examples but because it's me they are based in religion and none of us wants to wake that beast, I think.

The trick to me is being aware enough of that concept that you are able to consistently stop and consider whether even the best system of ethics applies to the current situation. It means looking at your beliefs and (most difficult) yourself in a deliberately flawed light. That can be hard. You also constantly run the risk of falling into the old trap of "I don't want this to be the wrong choice, so I'm going to decide that ethics doesn't apply to it".

Ninja'd:
I am, for instance, on the fence about stapling things to the flesh of our teachers and educators, but I am willing to keep an open mind.

[hector13]

Well you can tape it then, or glue it, there’s no need to avoid the compromises just because someone doesn’t end up hurt. Maybe looking a bit foolish, but they can peel it off. Eventually.

[PTTG??]

I would heartily encourage philosophical arguments on the nature of ethics, but is it really relevant in the face of a president/spokesperson so childish and cartoonish?

Like, if you're being mugged, do you reflect on the values system implied by "your money or your life," and conclude at length that the perpetrator meant to establish a value system that is sound and based on rational extrapolation from base precepts that may differ from yours, but are no less valid?

[sluissa]

I would heartily encourage philosophical arguments on the nature of ethics, but is it really relevant in the face of a president/spokesperson so childish and cartoonish?

Like, if you're being mugged, do you reflect on the values system implied by "your money or your life," and conclude at length that the perpetrator meant to establish a value system that is sound and based on rational extrapolation from base precepts that may differ from yours, but are no less valid?

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[Max™]

All ethics teachers should have "you can believe in moral relativism and still have opinions" sown into the back of their shirts, and "utilitarianism doesn't work because you can't see the future" written on a piece of paper and then stapled to their forehead.

Must one have opinions though? Or beliefs for that matter?

[Egan_BW]

Can't I just be an immobile fungus that has no thoughts at all?

[Madman198237]

Can't I just be an immobile fungus that has no thoughts at all?

Yes.

Step one: Die, alone and completely separated from society, in a forest covered in rotting-flesh-eating moss.
Step two: Do you actually still care at this point?
Step 3:
Step 4: Have the majority of your atoms and molecules be part of the immobile thoughtless fungus that steadily devoured your lifeless corpse.

[Egan_BW]

I'm not really a collection of atoms though, so that doesn't count.

[hector13]

You are in fact mostly empty space.

[Karnewarrior]

I would heartily encourage philosophical arguments on the nature of ethics, but is it really relevant in the face of a president/spokesperson so childish and cartoonish?

Like, if you're being mugged, do you reflect on the values system implied by "your money or your life," and conclude at length that the perpetrator meant to establish a value system that is sound and based on rational extrapolation from base precepts that may differ from yours, but are no less valid?

I'm reminded about the quote from the guy who had his hot dog stolen by Bill Murray or whoever, except instead it's:

"I just got mugged by Rudy Guliani, and when he was done he left laughing and shouting 'Nobody will ever believe you!'"

[scriver]

Can't I just be an immobile fungus that has no thoughts at all?

Hey, I move between my bed and my computer, I'm at least one mobile

[misko27]

So Manafort was convicted of eight counts of fraud today, and Trump's former lawyer Micheal Cohen plead guilty to a variety of charges, including violating campaign finance laws.

Busy day.

[hector13]

Busy hour or so anyway, it happened fast. Trump brushed off the Manaforr thing, did not comment at all on the Cohen thing. Intriguing, since Cohen all but said he was told to pay off the models by Trump.