Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[wierd]

Don't be silly. The major thing the US exports is everyone else's dirty laundry.  The US would just need to say "Oh, you wont buy our stuff? No access to our spy infrastructure then!" and the world would change its tune.   Germany, the UK, and pals are addicted to the delicious spying the US does on their citizens, so they dont have to (and can save face for not doing.)

[martinuzz]

Don't be silly. The major thing the US exports is everyone else's dirty laundry.  The US would just need to say "Oh, you wont buy our stuff? No access to our spy infrastructure then!" and the world would change its tune.   Germany, the UK, and pals are addicted to the delicious spying the US does on their citizens, so they dont have to (and can save face for not doing.)

Don't be silly. The UK is way ahead on the 1984 road. Their services just aren't as leaky as the NSA   

[Neonivek]

Don't be silly. The major thing the US exports is everyone else's dirty laundry.  The US would just need to say "Oh, you wont buy our stuff? No access to our spy infrastructure then!" and the world would change its tune.   Germany, the UK, and pals are addicted to the delicious spying the US does on their citizens, so they dont have to (and can save face for not doing.)

Don't be silly. The UK is way ahead on the 1984 road. Their services just aren't as leaky as the NSA   

Yeah a lot of countries have pretty good spy agencies.

If anything the corruption within the USA's spy agencies makes them sort of a loose cannon.

So much so that doesn't the USA buy most of its espionage from third parties?

[wierd]

In the US, we have this stickly little thing called the 4th amendment, which makes it illegal to perform searches or seizures without a warrant, which has to be specific in the places searched and the things to be taken, and specifically mentions papers and effects, which are the analogous items to files and devices.

That makes it illegal to just spy on US citizens in general.

The US gets around that by saying "Hey, we will spy on your people, if you spy on ours, and we will just trade intel. No laws violated!"

[Frumple]

Ah, well... no, the US gets around that by just kinda' casually shitting on the 4th. Back-scratch civil spying is part of that, but I'd probably be pretty comfortable wagering it's not a majority of it.

[RedKing]

neo you just replied to that like "the president just drank water out of a toilet bowl!" with a response equivalent of "well presidents are allowed to drink water. [...] A toilet bowl, mind you, is a bit odd."

Spoiler: Relevant. (click to show/hide)

[martinuzz]

French president Macron did something no French president did before. Instead of adressing his voters, he spoke on French national tv, directly adressing Trump, not in french, but in english.

He told Trump that he has made a grave mistake by rejecting Paris. "If we don't act now, our children will live in a world of migration, war, and shortages. A dangerous world. We will not renegotiate a less ambitious agreement. There is no plan B, because there is no planet B.".
At the end of his 3 minute speech, he executed a rhetorical coup-de-grace, when he bounced his own slogan back to him. "Make our planet great again".

Meanwhile on social media, 'make the planet great again' is trending explosively. Apparently Macron's media staff had already counted on it, because the minute he finished his speech, Macron's Twitter acount showed MAKE THE PLANET GREAT AGAIN in white capitals on a blue background.

[Starver]

Dont be silly. It will finally be the year of the linux desktop.

[birdy51]

We'll have to wait and see whether Macron's speech has an impact. I haven't watched it myself, though my cursory reaction is to be put off by him asking scientists to jump ship from American soil to French. Though, I can't say I blame them if they do. I think the age of American dominance is dying.

[Frumple]

It's certainly getting crotch stomped by the GOP just a titch, at the moment, if nothing else. Depends on how badly tattered it is in 2-4 years, and whether/how much of the rest of the world can be convinced this shit was a fluke at that point. Hopefully most of us will still be around to find out, ha.

[Sheb]

I dunno, I can't help think that at least part of the reason Trump pulled out is a tantrum at the way Europeans leader in general and Macron in particular treated him abroad. I don't think he react well to opposition, the way to go is to flatter is dumb ego and make him think he had the idea in the beginning.

[smjjames]

No country can dominate forever anyway.

I think much of our dominance was technological, plus the fact that WWII vaulted us into being a superpower. Now that the Cold War (in terms of the Soviet Union) is over, the world isn't in two major polar blocks, and the rest of the world has been catching up to the West economically and technologically. So, it's less that we are in decline and more that we don't have the lions share of the dominance anymore. We are now competing with the EU, Russia, China, India, and other emerging powers for dominance because the playing field is still level.

Still, decline doesn't mean that we lose clout, the U.K. still has significant clout despite losing it's empire. We're still THE economic engine of the world and will still be for a long time to come (though when Trump, the Republicans, and climate change come into play, all bets are off), and our military capabilities will be unmatched for a long time to come.

[alway]

We'll have to wait and see whether Macron's speech has an impact. I haven't watched it myself, though my cursory reaction is to be put off by him asking scientists to jump ship from American soil to French. Though, I can't say I blame them if they do. I think the age of American dominance is dying.

Trump's budget calls for a 20% reduction in research funding. That's a lot of scientists in need of a new job elsewhere regardless of 'American dominance' or similar pie in the sky ideological sentiments.

[Frumple]

I dunno, I can't help think that at least part of the reason Trump pulled out is a tantrum at the way Europeans leader in general and Macron in particular treated him abroad. I don't think he react well to opposition, the way to go is to flatter is dumb ego and make him think he had the idea in the beginning.

Well... yes, trump's reaction to people not falling over to metaphorically and literally fellate him has a fair amount to do with how things are playing out. Pretty sure most world leaders don't really have the option to audition as probationary members of the trump tower brothel, though. When you're on camera and in the eyes of the entire world there's only so much room available to flatter a bastard like trump.

Leader worth a single shit knows that and, even if they are narcissistic little nutjobs, gives other powers room to at least maintain the facade of personal sovereignty and national dignity. Unfortunately, we get to deal with trump.

[Sheb]

I dunno, I can't help think that at least part of the reason Trump pulled out is a tantrum at the way Europeans leader in general and Macron in particular treated him abroad. I don't think he react well to opposition, the way to go is to flatter is dumb ego and make him think he had the idea in the beginning.

Well... yes, trump's reaction to people not falling over to metaphorically and literally fellate him has a fair amount to do with how things are playing out. Pretty sure most world leaders don't really have the option to audition as probationary members of the trump tower brothel, though. When you're on camera and in the eyes of the entire world there's only so much room available to flatter a bastard like trump.

Leader worth a single shit knows that and, even if they are narcissistic little nutjobs, gives other powers room to at least maintain the facade of personal sovereignty and national dignity. Unfortunately, we get to deal with trump.

Which is also what Macron didn't give Trump with his handshake antics. Granted, Trump need to learn the lesson that he can't do all he wants by himself. But is he able to learn it, or is it better to find way to calm his ego for a few years and wait for 2020? That's the dilemma facing every other head of state.